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W12 13 Sep 19 10.02am
Originally posted by SW19 CPFC Firstly, I'm not a socialist. Secondly, wage slaves are the reality of globalisation, which in my view is an inevitability and feel free to fight against it but you'll lose. Ergo the need for low paid jobs to be filled by immigrants is nothing new, and will continue to be the standard until automation takes over. You make paying our 'own people' a better wage seem as simple as flicking a light switch. Firstly, who are our 'own people'. Lets for simplicity say people who were born here. Then just stop and think about the complexity of that. If we kicked out all non-brits tomorrow, and raised the pay to a level that would be acceptable to resident labour, how much debt would that accrue? How much money would need to be set aside to subsidise said wages to ensure our businesses remained competitive? and so on and so on. Don't make out these things are easy. Re. the horses – I agree, but facts are facts. Not everyone in the EU has employment issues. Quite the opposite. So don't pass it off as though every country is affected. If the point had been worded differently the reply would not have been necessary – eg unemployment is high in the eastern bloc countries which is causing problems in more affluent western ones etc. etc. WTF is this? "the need for low paid jobs to be filled by immigrants is nothing new" Of course it is. How can you even argue that? What did we do before mass immigration? "Lets for simplicity say people who were born here. Then just stop and think about the complexity of that. If we kicked out all non-brits tomorrow" Where the phuck did you get that from? I'm talking about stopping mass immigration not mass deportation although there are some that clearly shouldn't be here. "...raised the pay to a level that would be acceptable to resident labour, how much debt would that accrue? How much money would need to be set aside to subsidise said wages" Why do you assume that would acrue debt? Would some of that additional money not make it straight back into the economy? It's obviously what the left would dismiss as a "trope" but at the moment we have people working like dogs and connot afford a family or a home in order to support large numbers of immigrants that are a drain on our social care e.g. families on low pay or no pay with large numbers of children. What happens when automation kicks in and these people are dicarded? It's already happening. We already have huge numbers of old people, the mentally ill, former serviceman etc who are suffering directly because of this. Due to "positive descrimitation" they are at the back of the queue. We need to look after our own in order to help otrhers in the world. At the moment we are faced with descending into chaos. Could you imagine people like Corbyn and McDonald being anywhere near power a few years ago? I mean Communism FFS!?
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W12 13 Sep 19 10.02am

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

Firstly, I'm not a socialist. Secondly, wage slaves are the reality of globalisation, which in my view is an inevitability and feel free to fight against it but you'll lose. Ergo the need for low paid jobs to be filled by immigrants is nothing new, and will continue to be the standard until automation takes over.

You make paying our 'own people' a better wage seem as simple as flicking a light switch. Firstly, who are our 'own people'. Lets for simplicity say people who were born here. Then just stop and think about the complexity of that. If we kicked out all non-brits tomorrow, and raised the pay to a level that would be acceptable to resident labour, how much debt would that accrue? How much money would need to be set aside to subsidise said wages to ensure our businesses remained competitive? and so on and so on. Don't make out these things are easy.

Re. the horses – I agree, but facts are facts. Not everyone in the EU has employment issues. Quite the opposite. So don't pass it off as though every country is affected. If the point had been worded differently the reply would not have been necessary – eg unemployment is high in the eastern bloc countries which is causing problems in more affluent western ones etc. etc.

WTF is this?

"the need for low paid jobs to be filled by immigrants is nothing new"

Of course it is. How can you even argue that? What did we do before mass immigration?

"Lets for simplicity say people who were born here. Then just stop and think about the complexity of that. If we kicked out all non-brits tomorrow"

Where the phuck did you get that from? I'm talking about stopping mass immigration not mass deportation although there are some that clearly shouldn't be here.

"...raised the pay to a level that would be acceptable to resident labour, how much debt would that accrue? How much money would need to be set aside to subsidise said wages"

Why do you assume that would acrue debt? Would some of that additional money not make it straight back into the economy? It's obviously what the left would dismiss as a "trope" but at the moment we have people working like dogs and connot afford a family or a home in order to support large numbers of immigrants that are a drain on our social care e.g. families on low pay or no pay with large numbers of children. What happens when automation kicks in and these people are dicarded? It's already happening. We already have huge numbers of old people, the mentally ill, former serviceman etc who are suffering directly because of this. Due to "positive descrimitation" they are at the back of the queue. We need to look after our own in order to help otrhers in the world. At the moment we are faced with descending into chaos. Could you imagine people like Corbyn and McDonald being anywhere near power a few years ago? I mean Communism FFS!?

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DANGERCLOSE london 13 Sep 19 11.40am
Brexit Party pact with Tories takes over Hartlepool Council [Link] "Well done Hartlepool ....They said we would not vote to LEAVE they were wrong . Keep it up Brexit Party ... Prepare for government ."
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DANGERCLOSE

london 13 Sep 19 11.40am

Brexit Party pact with Tories takes over Hartlepool Council

[Link]

"Well done Hartlepool ....They said we would not vote to LEAVE they were wrong . Keep it up Brexit Party ... Prepare for government ."

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Spiderman Horsham 13 Sep 19 3.32pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I run a small AirBnb here and many of our visitors come from Europe. I have never heard one of them say that they think Brexit is a good idea. They all think it's a bizarre idea and genuinely fail to understand why anyone would deliberately hurt their economy in this way. The same applies to our visitors from further afield, and especially those from Australia. The only ones we get who are in favour are those British people who chunter on with the same kind of tedious arguments heard on here. What amazes me is how some foreign born folk understand and value the British system of democracy better than many who were born and live here. Like you you eman
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Spiderman

Horsham 13 Sep 19 3.32pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I run a small AirBnb here and many of our visitors come from Europe. I have never heard one of them say that they think Brexit is a good idea. They all think it's a bizarre idea and genuinely fail to understand why anyone would deliberately hurt their economy in this way.

The same applies to our visitors from further afield, and especially those from Australia.

The only ones we get who are in favour are those British people who chunter on with the same kind of tedious arguments heard on here.

What amazes me is how some foreign born folk understand and value the British system of democracy better than many who were born and live here.

Like you you eman

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Spiderman Horsham 13 Sep 19 3.32pm
Originally posted by Spiderman Like you you eman[/quote] Sorry mean
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Spiderman Horsham 13 Sep 19 3.36pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 The truth about brexit is that thee are no benefits whatsoever. Johnson, who was originally against brexit, saw his route to power and unlimited wealth. What an opportunity, and he and his backers will become filthy rich. Brexiteers are real suckers. Democracy? We won't bother with that. Not true...Jamie Oliver said he would f*** off and Linekar will be beside himself. Not a bad start me thinks
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Spiderman

Horsham 13 Sep 19 3.36pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

The truth about brexit is that thee are no benefits whatsoever.

Johnson, who was originally against brexit, saw his route to power and unlimited wealth.

What an opportunity, and he and his backers will become filthy rich.

Brexiteers are real suckers.

Democracy? We won't bother with that.

Not true...Jamie Oliver said he would f*** off and Linekar will be beside himself. Not a bad start me thinks

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Spiderman Horsham 13 Sep 19 3.37pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 The truth about brexit is that thee are no benefits whatsoever. Johnson, who was originally against brexit, saw his route to power and unlimited wealth. What an opportunity, and he and his backers will become filthy rich. Brexiteers are real suckers. Democracy? We won't bother with that. You really are quite an unpleasant person aren't you
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Spiderman

Horsham 13 Sep 19 3.37pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

The truth about brexit is that thee are no benefits whatsoever.

Johnson, who was originally against brexit, saw his route to power and unlimited wealth.

What an opportunity, and he and his backers will become filthy rich.

Brexiteers are real suckers.

Democracy? We won't bother with that.

You really are quite an unpleasant person aren't you

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Spiderman Horsham 13 Sep 19 3.39pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays I obviously agree with your frustrations and anger. I still think not voting would be a victory for your political opponents. Totally agree..hit them where it hurts, at the ballot box
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Spiderman

Horsham 13 Sep 19 3.39pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I obviously agree with your frustrations and anger.

I still think not voting would be a victory for your political opponents.

Totally agree..hit them where it hurts, at the ballot box

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Spiderman Horsham 13 Sep 19 3.46pm
Originally posted by Jimenez Mapleleaf will be happy!! I believe he taught Albanian in the mid 70s Apparently he was King Zog's Chief of Staff,
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Spiderman

Horsham 13 Sep 19 3.46pm

Originally posted by Jimenez

Mapleleaf will be happy!! I believe he taught Albanian in the mid 70s

Apparently he was King Zog's Chief of Staff,

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the silurian The garden of England.(not really) 13 Sep 19 3.47pm
Originally posted by Spiderman Totally agree..hit them where it hurts, at the ballot box How exactly do I do that? They ignore 17.4 million votes, thye're hardly gonna worry about my vote are they?
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the silurian

The garden of England.(not really) 13 Sep 19 3.47pm

Originally posted by Spiderman

Totally agree..hit them where it hurts, at the ballot box

How exactly do I do that? They ignore 17.4 million votes, thye're hardly gonna worry about my vote are they?

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susmik PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 13 Sep 19 4.01pm
I read the Lisbon Treaty last night this is what will happen if we do remain in the EU... read it and weep all you Remoaners. ..“What will actually happen if we stay in the EU” is a question no remainer will ever answer but here it is warts and all. Check it out if you wish ——>> *LISBON TREATY* 1: The UK along with all existing members of the EU lose their abstention veto in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon Treaty when the system changes to that of majority acceptance with no abstentions or veto’s being allowed. 2: All member nations will become states of the new federal nation of the EU by 2022 as clearly laid out in the Lisbon treaty with no exceptions or veto’s. 3: All member states must adopt the Euro by 2022 and any new member state must do so within 2 years of joining the EU as laid down in the Lisbon treaty. 4: The London stock exchange will move to Frankfurt in 2020 and be integrated into the EU stock exchange resulting in a loss of 200,000 plus jobs in the UK because of the relocation. (This has already been pre-agreed and is only on a holding pattern due to the Brexit negotiations, which if Brexit does happen, the move is fully cancelled - but if not and the UK remains a member it’s full steam ahead for the move.) 5: The EU Parliament and ECJ become supreme over all legislative bodies of the UK. 6: The UK will adopt 100% of whatever the EU Parliament and ECJ lays down without any means of abstention or veto, negating the need for the UK to have the Lords or even the Commons as we know it today. 7: The UK will NOT be able to make its own trade deals. 8: The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade tariffs. 9 The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade quotas. 10: The UK loses control of its fishing rights 11: The UK loses control of its oil and gas rights 12: The UK loses control of its borders and enters the Schengen region by 2022 - as clearly laid down in the Lisbon treaty 13: The UK loses control of its planning legislation 14: The UK loses control of its armed forces including its nuclear deterrent 15: The UK loses full control of its taxation policy 16: The UK loses the ability to create its own laws and to implement them 17: The UK loses its standing in the Commonwealths 18: The UK loses control of any provinces or affiliated nations e.g.: Falklands, Cayman Islands, Gibraltar etc 19: The UK loses control of its judicial system 20: The UK loses control of its international policy 21: The UK loses full control of its national policy 22: The UK loses its right to call itself a nation in its own right. 23: The UK loses control of its space exploration program 24: The UK loses control of its Aviation and Sea lane jurisdiction 25: The UK loses its rebate in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon treaty 26: The UK’s contribution to the EU is set to increase by an average of 1.2bn pa and by 2.3bn pa by 2020 This is the future that the youths of today think we stole from them? They should be on their knees thanking us for saving them from being turned into Orwellian automatons! Forget Deals no deals its time for remainers and brexiteers to unite and see whats coming before its to late. This is the whole reason they are dragging brexit out. So we can get to 2020 then we have no choices anymore. The choice is yours.......... Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.
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susmik

PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 13 Sep 19 4.01pm

I read the Lisbon Treaty last night
this is what will happen if we do remain in the EU... read it and weep all you Remoaners.
..“What will actually happen if we stay in the EU” is a question no remainer will ever answer but here it is warts and all.

Check it out if you wish ——>>

LISBON TREATY

1: The UK along with all existing members of the EU lose their abstention veto in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon Treaty when the system changes to that of majority acceptance with no abstentions or veto’s being allowed.
2: All member nations will become states of the new federal nation of the EU by 2022 as clearly laid out in the Lisbon treaty with no exceptions or veto’s.
3: All member states must adopt the Euro by 2022 and any new member state must do so within 2 years of joining the EU as laid down in the Lisbon treaty.
4: The London stock exchange will move to Frankfurt in 2020 and be integrated into the EU stock exchange resulting in a loss of 200,000 plus jobs in the UK because of the relocation. (This has already been pre-agreed and is only on a holding pattern due to the Brexit negotiations, which if Brexit does happen, the move is fully cancelled - but if not and the UK remains a member it’s full steam ahead for the move.)
5: The EU Parliament and ECJ become supreme over all legislative bodies of the UK.
6: The UK will adopt 100% of whatever the EU Parliament and ECJ lays down without any means of abstention or veto, negating the need for the UK to have the Lords or even the Commons as we know it today.
7: The UK will NOT be able to make its own trade deals.
8: The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade tariffs.
9 The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade quotas.
10: The UK loses control of its fishing rights
11: The UK loses control of its oil and gas rights
12: The UK loses control of its borders and enters the Schengen region by 2022 - as clearly laid down in the Lisbon treaty
13: The UK loses control of its planning legislation
14: The UK loses control of its armed forces including its nuclear deterrent
15: The UK loses full control of its taxation policy
16: The UK loses the ability to create its own laws and to implement them
17: The UK loses its standing in the Commonwealths
18: The UK loses control of any provinces or affiliated nations e.g.: Falklands, Cayman Islands, Gibraltar etc
19: The UK loses control of its judicial system
20: The UK loses control of its international policy
21: The UK loses full control of its national policy
22: The UK loses its right to call itself a nation in its own right.
23: The UK loses control of its space exploration program
24: The UK loses control of its Aviation and Sea lane jurisdiction
25: The UK loses its rebate in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon treaty
26: The UK’s contribution to the EU is set to increase by an average of 1.2bn pa and by 2.3bn pa by 2020

This is the future that the youths of today think we stole from them?
They should be on their knees thanking us for saving them from being turned into Orwellian automatons!
Forget Deals no deals its time for remainers and brexiteers to unite and see whats coming before its to late. This is the whole reason they are dragging brexit out. So we can get to 2020 then we have no choices anymore.

The choice is yours..........

Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.

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jeeagles 13 Sep 19 4.02pm
Originally posted by W12 WTF is this? "the need for low paid jobs to be filled by immigrants is nothing new" Of course it is. How can you even argue that? What did we do before mass immigration? "Lets for simplicity say people who were born here. Then just stop and think about the complexity of that. If we kicked out all non-brits tomorrow" Where the phuck did you get that from? I'm talking about stopping mass immigration not mass deportation although there are some that clearly shouldn't be here. "...raised the pay to a level that would be acceptable to resident labour, how much debt would that accrue? How much money would need to be set aside to subsidise said wages" Why do you assume that would acrue debt? Would some of that additional money not make it straight back into the economy? It's obviously what the left would dismiss as a "trope" but at the moment we have people working like dogs and connot afford a family or a home in order to support large numbers of immigrants that are a drain on our social care e.g. families on low pay or no pay with large numbers of children. What happens when automation kicks in and these people are dicarded? It's already happening. We already have huge numbers of old people, the mentally ill, former serviceman etc who are suffering directly because of this. Due to "positive descrimitation" they are at the back of the queue. We need to look after our own in order to help otrhers in the world. At the moment we are faced with descending into chaos. Could you imagine people like Corbyn and McDonald being anywhere near power a few years ago? I mean Communism FFS!? f***ing hell! SW19's view is quiet astonishing. Let's stay in th EU too keep wages down and keep things cheap for those with money.
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jeeagles

13 Sep 19 4.02pm

Originally posted by W12

WTF is this?

"the need for low paid jobs to be filled by immigrants is nothing new"

Of course it is. How can you even argue that? What did we do before mass immigration?

"Lets for simplicity say people who were born here. Then just stop and think about the complexity of that. If we kicked out all non-brits tomorrow"

Where the phuck did you get that from? I'm talking about stopping mass immigration not mass deportation although there are some that clearly shouldn't be here.

"...raised the pay to a level that would be acceptable to resident labour, how much debt would that accrue? How much money would need to be set aside to subsidise said wages"

f***ing hell! SW19's view is quiet astonishing.

Let's stay in th EU too keep wages down and keep things cheap for those with money.

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Stirlingsays 13 Sep 19 4.09pm
Originally posted by jeeagles f***ing hell! SW19's view is quiet astonishing. Let's stay in th EU too keep wages down and keep things cheap for those with money. He's intellectually honest, whether we agree with him or not, and personally I think that's something to value on here. For me the economic argument, even if we agreed with SW19 about cheap labour, it just isn't anywhere near enough to remain in this form of EU. Edited by Stirlingsays (13 Sep 2019 4.11pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

13 Sep 19 4.09pm

Originally posted by jeeagles

f***ing hell! SW19's view is quiet astonishing.

Let's stay in th EU too keep wages down and keep things cheap for those with money.

He's intellectually honest, whether we agree with him or not, and personally I think that's something to value on here.

For me the economic argument, even if we agreed with SW19 about cheap labour, it just isn't anywhere near enough to remain in this form of EU.

Edited by Stirlingsays (13 Sep 2019 4.11pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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