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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 06 Jul 21 2.14pm
Originally posted by Badger11 So if Remain had won we should have had a second referendum just to confirm that's what the voters intended? Edited by Badger11 (06 Jul 2021 9.09am) If the context so demanded, of course it should. If lies, evidence of foreign interference and political shenanigans indicated that a close result was unreliable, then the argument for confirmation would have been pushed very hard by Farage and his motley crew. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 06 Jul 21 2.14pm

Originally posted by Badger11

So if Remain had won we should have had a second referendum just to confirm that's what the voters intended?

Edited by Badger11 (06 Jul 2021 9.09am)

If the context so demanded, of course it should. If lies, evidence of foreign interference and political shenanigans indicated that a close result was unreliable, then the argument for confirmation would have been pushed very hard by Farage and his motley crew.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 06 Jul 21 2.21pm
Originally posted by PalazioVecchio Sorry to disagree. The EU is a dinosaur. Soon to go extinct. And good riddance. The eu is hated by Greeks, Catalans, Italians, the Dutch, French, polish, Hungarians, Danish...even countries outside the eu like Switzerland.... etc The eu is Rome circa 470 ad , Napoleon in 1815 , ibm computers in 1985, Charlton athletic , ..... your heyday is over. Extinct? No. Evolve to better suit it's environment? Yes. There is a need for an EU and when a need exists it will be met. We have just removed our DNA from the gene pool to go off and form our our branch line. You don't need to be Dr Beeching to know what happens to branch lines. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 06 Jul 21 2.21pm

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

Sorry to disagree. The EU is a dinosaur. Soon to go extinct. And good riddance.

The eu is hated by Greeks, Catalans, Italians, the Dutch, French, polish, Hungarians, Danish...even countries outside the eu like Switzerland.... etc

The eu is Rome circa 470 ad , Napoleon in 1815 , ibm computers in 1985, Charlton athletic , ..... your heyday is over.

Extinct? No. Evolve to better suit it's environment? Yes. There is a need for an EU and when a need exists it will be met. We have just removed our DNA from the gene pool to go off and form our our branch line. You don't need to be Dr Beeching to know what happens to branch lines.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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the silurian The garden of England.(not really) 06 Jul 21 2.24pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Extinct? No. Evolve to better suit it's environment? Yes. There is a need for an EU and when a need exists it will be met. We have just removed our DNA from the gene pool to go off and form our our branch line. You don't need to be Dr Beeching to know what happens to branch lines. Pray tell why there is a need for an EU?
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the silurian

The garden of England.(not really) 06 Jul 21 2.24pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Extinct? No. Evolve to better suit it's environment? Yes. There is a need for an EU and when a need exists it will be met. We have just removed our DNA from the gene pool to go off and form our our branch line. You don't need to be Dr Beeching to know what happens to branch lines.

Pray tell why there is a need for an EU?

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 06 Jul 21 2.30pm
Originally posted by cryrst Again, how can you see the future. Its impossible without a delorian and doc brown. 6 months and it's not as grim as was portrayed and without digging to the empth degree you must admit that. Ask the farmers, ask the fisherman ok. But shops aren't empty and the sky hasn't fallen in. Without brexit I will add that although weve had many sad deaths with covid the numbers would definitely be higher. If the EU can reform and individually offer different things to different countries without one size fits all then its a no brainer to maybe consider another vote to rejoin and go back in. With all the cards layed out. Meanwhile time will tell if it was a good medium to long term choice. We are still part of Europe and trading with the EU and long may that continue. Aside of that trade deals and Ts and Cs with other nations are now ours to negotiate. No one can put barriers in the way. Good and bad deals happen with all business so there will be peaks and troughs in the future. Basically it's done. The EU will reform. It's not a question of if, but of how and when. Outside, we will have no say in that reformation and will have very little leverage. If the union has disintegrated by then the whole episode will be seen as the historical disaster I believe it to be. Just pride overcoming common sense. If you don't think things are too bad, then you haven't noticed the rising prices and shortages. The pandemic has confused everything, but as we get back on our feet, the impact will become clearer. As interest rates rise we face some seriously difficult times. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 06 Jul 21 2.30pm

Originally posted by cryrst

Again, how can you see the future. Its impossible without a delorian and doc brown.
6 months and it's not as grim as was portrayed and without digging to the empth degree you must admit that. Ask the farmers, ask the fisherman ok. But shops aren't empty and the sky hasn't fallen in.
Without brexit I will add that although weve had many sad deaths with covid the numbers would definitely be higher.
If the EU can reform and individually offer different things to different countries without one size fits all then its a no brainer to maybe consider another vote to rejoin and go back in. With all the cards layed out. Meanwhile time will tell if it was a good medium to long term choice. We are still part of Europe and trading with the EU and long may that continue.
Aside of that trade deals and Ts and Cs with other nations are now ours to negotiate. No one can put barriers in the way. Good and bad deals happen with all business so there will be peaks and troughs in the future. Basically it's done.

The EU will reform. It's not a question of if, but of how and when. Outside, we will have no say in that reformation and will have very little leverage. If the union has disintegrated by then the whole episode will be seen as the historical disaster I believe it to be. Just pride overcoming common sense.

If you don't think things are too bad, then you haven't noticed the rising prices and shortages. The pandemic has confused everything, but as we get back on our feet, the impact will become clearer. As interest rates rise we face some seriously difficult times.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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the silurian The garden of England.(not really) 06 Jul 21 2.41pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle The EU will reform. It's not a question of if, but of how and when. Outside, we will have no say in that reformation and will have very little leverage. If the union has disintegrated by then the whole episode will be seen as the historical disaster I believe it to be. Just pride overcoming common sense. If you don't think things are too bad, then you haven't noticed the rising prices and shortages. The pandemic has confused everything, but as we get back on our feet, the impact will become clearer. As interest rates rise we face some seriously difficult times. you hope???
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the silurian

The garden of England.(not really) 06 Jul 21 2.41pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

If you don't think things are too bad, then you haven't noticed the rising prices and shortages. The pandemic has confused everything, but as we get back on our feet, the impact will become clearer. As interest rates rise we face some seriously difficult times.

you hope???

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PalazioVecchio south pole 06 Jul 21 3.05pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle The EU will reform. It's not a question of if, but of how and when. Outside, we will have no say in that reformation and will have very little leverage. If the union has disintegrated by then the whole episode will be seen as the historical disaster I believe it to be. Just pride overcoming common sense. If you don't think things are too bad, then you haven't noticed the rising prices and shortages. The pandemic has confused everything, but as we get back on our feet, the impact will become clearer. As interest rates rise we face some seriously difficult times. Reform ? Too little, too late. The eu will be gone after the next financial crisis. Eze Peasy at Anfield....
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PalazioVecchio

south pole 06 Jul 21 3.05pm

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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Reform ? Too little, too late.

The eu will be gone after the next financial crisis.

Eze Peasy at Anfield....

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Matov 06 Jul 21 3.09pm
Originally posted by silvertop You do realise that if you just copy + paste the same post in response to even the slightest questioning of the effect of Brexit, that people will simply scan through your posts - pausing only to note the irony of a Brexiteer asserting low intelligence among Remainers - without reading them? A fair point although I would pull you up on your last point. Anybody who thought that a second referendum that included a Remain option before we had actually left the EU was a vote winner (and a second referendum could only come about after another General Election given the requirement for another specific referendum act) has to be retarded given all the evidence out there pointing to the exact opposite. And why Johnson now has a majority of 80. I am sure Boris thanks all of those who made that possibe. Pushing for a position of just ignoring the Brexit vote and continuing the UK's membership of the EU was actually the far smarter stance to take, albeit again an electorally disastrous one. But given the legal status of the referendum as being only advisory, as opposed to a plebiscite, then HMG was quite within its constitutional rights to have just ignored the result. Of course, there would have been consequences but that position was far more logical than any nonsense about a second vote before the first one was acted upon. Ignore or act upon the June 2016 result were the only two courses of action that made any rational sense. A second vote along the lines of Labour was proposing would have plunged this country into effective civil war and lives would have been lost. An utter catastrophe on so many levels. But it, thankfully, never came to that. So yes, I question with absolute confidence the intelligence of anybody who thought it an idea that would solve anything in a meaningful way. Edited by Matov (06 Jul 2021 3.10pm) "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

06 Jul 21 3.09pm

Originally posted by silvertop

You do realise that if you just copy + paste the same post in response to even the slightest questioning of the effect of Brexit, that people will simply scan through your posts - pausing only to note the irony of a Brexiteer asserting low intelligence among Remainers - without reading them?

A fair point although I would pull you up on your last point.

Anybody who thought that a second referendum that included a Remain option before we had actually left the EU was a vote winner (and a second referendum could only come about after another General Election given the requirement for another specific referendum act) has to be retarded given all the evidence out there pointing to the exact opposite. And why Johnson now has a majority of 80. I am sure Boris thanks all of those who made that possibe.

Pushing for a position of just ignoring the Brexit vote and continuing the UK's membership of the EU was actually the far smarter stance to take, albeit again an electorally disastrous one. But given the legal status of the referendum as being only advisory, as opposed to a plebiscite, then HMG was quite within its constitutional rights to have just ignored the result. Of course, there would have been consequences but that position was far more logical than any nonsense about a second vote before the first one was acted upon. Ignore or act upon the June 2016 result were the only two courses of action that made any rational sense.

A second vote along the lines of Labour was proposing would have plunged this country into effective civil war and lives would have been lost. An utter catastrophe on so many levels. But it, thankfully, never came to that.

So yes, I question with absolute confidence the intelligence of anybody who thought it an idea that would solve anything in a meaningful way.

Edited by Matov (06 Jul 2021 3.10pm)

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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Matov 06 Jul 21 3.20pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle The EU will reform. It's not a question of if, but of how and when. Why would it reform? One thing I have to pull up many on my side of the debate about, and its a position I have had to move towards, is this notion that somehow the EU is going to disintegrate in the next 10 years. Logic dictates it should due to the disastrous Euro project but the reality that for many European nations, their populace has so little faith in their own political systems/politicians that the EU is actually seen as the less of two evils. Sometimes I think we forget how precarious the lives of many Europeans are, especially those in the southern, central and eastern part. The fate of people in places like Greece and so on, over the last 10 years, has been heart-breaking but on this rotten project trundles because the wider European political class is actually far more venal than even our own. So Brussels actually appears a far safer bet than their own Capital cities with the nations that have adopted the Euro effectively having their entire economies under German control. Hitler tried to do with Panzers, Merkal did it with banknotes. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

06 Jul 21 3.20pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

The EU will reform. It's not a question of if, but of how and when.

Why would it reform? One thing I have to pull up many on my side of the debate about, and its a position I have had to move towards, is this notion that somehow the EU is going to disintegrate in the next 10 years. Logic dictates it should due to the disastrous Euro project but the reality that for many European nations, their populace has so little faith in their own political systems/politicians that the EU is actually seen as the less of two evils.

Sometimes I think we forget how precarious the lives of many Europeans are, especially those in the southern, central and eastern part. The fate of people in places like Greece and so on, over the last 10 years, has been heart-breaking but on this rotten project trundles because the wider European political class is actually far more venal than even our own.

So Brussels actually appears a far safer bet than their own Capital cities with the nations that have adopted the Euro effectively having their entire economies under German control.

Hitler tried to do with Panzers, Merkal did it with banknotes.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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silvertop Portishead 06 Jul 21 4.45pm
Originally posted by Matov A fair point although I would pull you up on your last point. Anybody who thought that a second referendum that included a Remain option before we had actually left the EU was a vote winner (and a second referendum could only come about after another General Election given the requirement for another specific referendum act) has to be retarded given all the evidence out there pointing to the exact opposite. And why Johnson now has a majority of 80. I am sure Boris thanks all of those who made that possibe. Pushing for a position of just ignoring the Brexit vote and continuing the UK's membership of the EU was actually the far smarter stance to take, albeit again an electorally disastrous one. But given the legal status of the referendum as being only advisory, as opposed to a plebiscite, then HMG was quite within its constitutional rights to have just ignored the result. Of course, there would have been consequences but that position was far more logical than any nonsense about a second vote before the first one was acted upon. Ignore or act upon the June 2016 result were the only two courses of action that made any rational sense. A second vote along the lines of Labour was proposing would have plunged this country into effective civil war and lives would have been lost. An utter catastrophe on so many levels. But it, thankfully, never came to that. So yes, I question with absolute confidence the intelligence of anybody who thought it an idea that would solve anything in a meaningful way. Edited by Matov (06 Jul 2021 3.10pm) Remoaners like me do not advocate a second referendum. I suspect most of us have long given that up and are as bored as you at re-hashing the same arguments. If we were really determined, there would not have been the last GE landslide. That does not mean that we cannot identify any failings that arise or say I told you so if any predicted calamity comes to pass. So far I am not sure there is any clear evidence either way. Not enough time, and the impact of Covid and still felt financial crisis is hammering and skewering the data.
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silvertop

Portishead 06 Jul 21 4.45pm

Originally posted by Matov

A fair point although I would pull you up on your last point.

So yes, I question with absolute confidence the intelligence of anybody who thought it an idea that would solve anything in a meaningful way.

Edited by Matov (06 Jul 2021 3.10pm)

Remoaners like me do not advocate a second referendum. I suspect most of us have long given that up and are as bored as you at re-hashing the same arguments. If we were really determined, there would not have been the last GE landslide.

That does not mean that we cannot identify any failings that arise or say I told you so if any predicted calamity comes to pass.

So far I am not sure there is any clear evidence either way. Not enough time, and the impact of Covid and still felt financial crisis is hammering and skewering the data.

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steeleye20 Croydon 06 Jul 21 5.15pm
EU leaders were prevented from putting their case in the 2016 referendum. The EU bashers cannot take the reality of the brexit disaster and ignore the coming break-up of the UK caused by leaves deceit and lies that the public could not examine in 2016. Their whole campaign was a disgraceful pack of lies. Why they persist with this b****x about the EU reforming or breaking-up God only knows, probably because things are so bad here they don't want to face it. Its good riddance to the UK, in fact it looks very likely the EU left us, not the other way round.
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steeleye20

Croydon 06 Jul 21 5.15pm

EU leaders were prevented from putting their case in the 2016 referendum.

The EU bashers cannot take the reality of the brexit disaster and ignore the coming break-up of the UK caused by leaves deceit and lies that the public could not examine in 2016.

Their whole campaign was a disgraceful pack of lies.

Why they persist with this b****x about the EU reforming or breaking-up God only knows, probably because things are so bad here they don't want to face it.

Its good riddance to the UK, in fact it looks very likely the EU left us, not the other way round.

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Matov 06 Jul 21 5.44pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 Its good riddance to the UK, in fact it looks very likely the EU left us, not the other way round. I f***ing love you Gumbo! "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

06 Jul 21 5.44pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

Its good riddance to the UK, in fact it looks very likely the EU left us, not the other way round.

I f***ing love you Gumbo!

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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Forest Hillbilly in a hidey-hole 06 Jul 21 5.53pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 EU leaders were prevented from putting their case in the 2016 referendum. The EU bashers cannot take the reality of the brexit disaster and ignore the coming break-up of the UK caused by leaves deceit and lies that the public could not examine in 2016. Their whole campaign was a disgraceful pack of lies. Why they persist with this b****x about the EU reforming or breaking-up God only knows, probably because things are so bad here they don't want to face it. Its good riddance to the UK, in fact it looks very likely the EU left us, not the other way round. ^^^ all valid points. Massive irony if England win The Euros "The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak
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Forest Hillbilly

in a hidey-hole 06 Jul 21 5.53pm

Send a Private Message to Forest Hillbilly

Originally posted by steeleye20

EU leaders were prevented from putting their case in the 2016 referendum.

The EU bashers cannot take the reality of the brexit disaster and ignore the coming break-up of the UK caused by leaves deceit and lies that the public could not examine in 2016.

Their whole campaign was a disgraceful pack of lies.

Why they persist with this b****x about the EU reforming or breaking-up God only knows, probably because things are so bad here they don't want to face it.

Its good riddance to the UK, in fact it looks very likely the EU left us, not the other way round.

^^^ all valid points.

Massive irony if England win The Euros

"The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak

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