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HKOwen Hong Kong 12 Dec 22 9.19pm | |
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Per the Nuffield Trust NHS cost as a percentage of GDP has doubled 1950 - 2020, from 3.5% to 7%. In the same period the population has increased 40% from 50 to 70 million. With the increasing life expectancy by about ten years in the same period and advances Most European countries spend 10% ish of GDP, France and Sweden as examples, it is broadly acknowledged they both have better medical outcomes than the UK. They also have systems that are not 100% free at point of service. Somehow the politics has to be removed from the NHS debate but no idea how that would ever happen Starmer and Streeting are now publicly saying things need to change, just not how. If people have private medical insurance then going private is their decision, nothing political, frees up an NHS service. If NHS services reduce because of doctors doing private work that is a systemic problem in how doctors are required to deliver services after training. Similarly having a two tier nurse pay structure depending if they are NHS or agency also needs to be somehow reviewed.
Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance. |
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dreamwaverider London 12 Dec 22 11.13pm | |
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Originally posted by HKOwen
Per the Nuffield Trust NHS cost as a percentage of GDP has doubled 1950 - 2020, from 3.5% to 7%. In the same period the population has increased 40% from 50 to 70 million. With the increasing life expectancy by about ten years in the same period and advances Most European countries spend 10% ish of GDP, France and Sweden as examples, it is broadly acknowledged they both have better medical outcomes than the UK. They also have systems that are not 100% free at point of service. Somehow the politics has to be removed from the NHS debate but no idea how that would ever happen Starmer and Streeting are now publicly saying things need to change, just not how. If people have private medical insurance then going private is their decision, nothing political, frees up an NHS service. If NHS services reduce because of doctors doing private work that is a systemic problem in how doctors are required to deliver services after training. Similarly having a two tier nurse pay structure depending if they are NHS or agency also needs to be somehow reviewed.
A lot in there HKO.
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cryrst The garden of England 13 Dec 22 3.39am | |
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Too many chiefs, not enough Indians.
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Midlands Eagle 13 Dec 22 6.10am | |
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Originally posted by cryrst
Too many chiefs, not enough Indians. That's not strictly true as it's the Indians that are spending too much time arse covering and not the chiefs. My wife is a nurse and she says that she spends half of her time filling in forms covering every slightest thing that she has done leaving just half of her working hours to look after the patients
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cROYdonrogers Leamington Spa 13 Dec 22 7.55am | |
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Agree with all above. Needs a complete re think. Can I throw in not offering certain services/procedures on NHS. Some of that wouldn't have been around 40/50 years ago. That list could be open to debate but it does stagger me some of the things on offer.
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becky over the moon 13 Dec 22 8.59am | |
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Quick example of NHS time wasting: Had a phone call for my husband's annual eye check at local community hospital - appointment made Had letter confirming said appointment Had text changing appointment from 11.12 to 11.14 a.m. (yes, you read that right) Had second letter confirming 'new' appointment Had 6 more texts over next 2 weeks 'reminding'
A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers |
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Badger11 Beckenham 13 Dec 22 8.59am | |
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These are some of the issues that need to be addressed although I doubt the politicians have the balls to do it. If they fix these then fine give them a pay rise but it has to have strings attached. - Too many people not paying into the NHS and I don't just mean health tourists. The older the population gets the smaller the taxpaying group gets. I am sorry but everybody should pay a minium amount even pensioners. - Too many staff using the NHS to subsidise their private work from consultants to nurses. What would your boss say if you said sorry I am not available that day I am working for a rival company. A friend was unwell and couldn't get a GP appointment so went to a private clinic and who did she see? Yup her own GP who couldn't see her on the NHS, she went nuts. - Bed blocking. The NHS needs to have short term care homes like they used to so frail people can be moved there for a couple of weeks before being discharged.
One more point |
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Badger11 Beckenham 13 Dec 22 9.01am | |
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Originally posted by becky
Quick example of NHS time wasting: Had a phone call for my husband's annual eye check at local community hospital - appointment made Had letter confirming said appointment Had text changing appointment from 11.12 to 11.14 a.m. (yes, you read that right) Had second letter confirming 'new' appointment Had 6 more texts over next 2 weeks 'reminding'
Lucky you I had an appointment at Kings tomorrow it has just been moved to February.
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becky over the moon 13 Dec 22 9.05am | |
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Originally posted by Badger11
These are some of the issues that need to be addressed although I doubt the politicians have the balls to do it. If they fix these then fine give them a pay rise but it has to have strings attached. - Too many people not paying into the NHS and I don't just mean health tourists. The older the population gets the smaller the taxpaying group gets. I am sorry but everybody should pay a minium amount even pensioners. - Too many staff using the NHS to subsidise their private work from consultants to nurses. What would your boss say if you said sorry I am not available that day I am working for a rival company. A friend was unwell and couldn't get a GP appointment so went to a private clinic and who did she see? Yup her own GP who couldn't see her on the NHS, she went nuts. - Bed blocking. The NHS needs to have short term care homes like they used to so frail people can be moved there for a couple of weeks before being discharged. Convalescent homes they were called. I don't understand why they cannot build a few 'Nightingale' type hospitals (or have used the original ones) for this. As most patients are ready for discharge, they would only need a mininmum of 'qualified' staff and a few health care assistants, with the patients themselves helping with things like meal delivery and drinks rounds as part of their occupational therapy, preparing them for home (obviously only for those who are actually able to help in some way). This and the 'community spirit' and companionship would probably be far more beneficial all round.
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YT Oxford 13 Dec 22 9.08am | |
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But we all love the NHS and think it's wonderful and are happy for it to cost as much as it costs.....provided it's other people who are paying for it. And provided we aren't the ones suing the NHS for compensation. I see the usual luvvies are firmly on the bandwagon with the imminent release of a movie of the Alan Bennett play 'Allelujah'. On BBC Breakfast this morning, Jennifer Saunders was allowed to make at least two incorrect statements without any challenge from the presenters: 1) "with all the NHS cuts going on....blah, blah". Err.. you mean the cuts that have meant more money and a higher percentage of GDP than ever is now being spent on it? 2) (Paraphrased) "I remember when I was young, old people went to hospital, and when they came out they all went to something called a 'convalescent home' to recover. Well where have all the convalescent homes gone now? Old people now just rot in hospital" Errr I'm about the same age as you, Jen, and I certainly don't recall any such thing as an NHS convalescent home, and if there were some, there certainly weren't enough to accommodate ALL old, ill people. My recollection is that old people went into hospital and came out feet first in a box. Now we keep them alive at any cost. Edited by YT (13 Dec 2022 9.10am)
Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes) |
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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 13 Dec 22 9.14am | |
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Originally posted by YT
But we all love the NHS and think it's wonderful and are happy for it to cost as much as it costs.....provided it's other people who are paying for it. And provided we aren't the ones suing the NHS for compensation. I see the usual luvvies are firmly on the bandwagon with the imminent release of a movie of the Alan Bennett play 'Allelujah'. On BBC Breakfast this morning, Jennifer Saunders was allowed to make at least two incorrect statements without any challenge from the presenters: 1) "with all the NHS cuts going on....blah, blah". Err.. you mean the cuts that have meant more money and a higher percentage of GDP than ever is now being spent on it? 2) (Paraphrased) "I remember when I was young, old people went to hospital, and when they came out they all went to something called a 'convalescent home' to recover. Well where have all the convalescent homes gone now? Old people now just rot in hospital" Errr I'm about the same age as you, Jen, and I certainly don't recall any such thing as an NHS convalescent home, and if there were some, there certainly weren't enough to accommodate ALL old, ill people. My recollection is that old people went into hospital and came out feet first in a box. Now we keep them alive at any cost. Edited by YT (13 Dec 2022 9.10am) Not forgetting the 13,300 new NHS doctors and nurses this year. Edited by Willo (13 Dec 2022 9.16am)
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NEILLO Shoreham-by-Sea 13 Dec 22 9.50am | |
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At its inception, the NHS was a great concept that was fit for purpose at the time.But it no longer is. As well as the obvious - eg the increase in population, the NHS has suffered from becoming a political football by both of the main parties. Just as we talk about banks being too big to fail, I think the NHS has become too big to succeed. A Total Review and implementation of the outcomes would take years to complete and even then be subject to the approval of whoever was in power at the time. Wastage and inefficiency have now become the norm. Throwing more money at the NHS will not solve the overriding problem. Like it or not, I think there needs to be a shift towards incentivising those that can afford private health care rather than penalising them, as is currently the case if you receive this as a employment perk. I'm not advocating moving to the U.S. model of healthcare, but a hybrid that can relieve the pressure on the overstretched NHS.
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