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January 29 2023 6.39pm

NHS needs a total review

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View EverybodyDannsNow's Profile EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 13 Dec 22 10.04am Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

Originally posted by Willo

Not forgetting the 13,300 new NHS doctors and nurses this year.

Edited by Willo (13 Dec 2022 9.16am)

More than 40,000 nurses have quit this year.

 

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View PalazioVecchio's Profile PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 13 Dec 22 10.15am Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend

too many freeloaders......especially idiots with only trivial things wrong with them.

 


Upsetting Manchester time and again

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Online Flag 13 Dec 22 10.16am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

More than 40,000 nurses have quit this year.

Quitting a job and leaving nursing are two different things of course. If that number did leave nursing I would be interested in the reasons why. How many of them did over the covid policies, pay, hours and so on.

Nursing, Police, Teachers, Prison & border officers and many other public sector jobs (regardless of how I think they have become politicised) are highly important and you can't have a first world nation without enough of them.

I would definitely agree that the NHS system has been broken for decades. Everyone who has tried to reform it though has been resisted as it's a religion in the country.

I don't personally know what the answer is.

Edited by Stirlingsays (13 Dec 2022 10.19am)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View EverybodyDannsNow's Profile EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 13 Dec 22 10.23am Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Quitting a job and leaving nursing are two different things of course. If that number did leave nursing I would be interested in the reasons why. How many of them did over the covid policies, pay, hours and so on.

Nursing, Police, Teachers, Prison officers and many other public sector jobs (regardless of how I think they have become politicised) are highly important and you can't have a first world nation without enough of them.

I would definitely agree that the NHS system has been broken for decades. Everyone who has tried to reform it though has been resisted as it's a religion in the country.

I don't personally know what the answer is.

Edited by Stirlingsays (13 Dec 2022 10.18am)

That's great, but it's still a net outcome of - many tens of thousands versus Willo's contribution re new nurses and doctors.

57% of those planning to leave the profession cited 'pay and benefits' as the reason according to YouGov. I don't think it's that complicated.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Online Flag 13 Dec 22 10.41am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

That's great, but it's still a net outcome of - many tens of thousands versus Willo's contribution re new nurses and doctors.

57% of those planning to leave the profession cited 'pay and benefits' as the reason according to YouGov. I don't think it's that complicated.


You would think this is all quite a simple formula really. In a normal society where people have their heads screwed on you work out how many people you need in each profession and what the conditions and pay need to be to attract them.

While I'm convinced we have had mostly a lower quality of elites for some decades now I know they know that.....However, knowing something and having systems that implement them are also two different realities.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View EverybodyDannsNow's Profile EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 13 Dec 22 10.45am Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays


You would think this is all quite a simple formula really. In a normal society where people have their heads screwed on you work out how many people you need in each profession and what the conditions and pay need to be to attract them.

While I'm convinced we have had mostly a lower quality of elites for some decades now I know they know that.....However, knowing something and having systems that implement them are also two different realities.

Yep, agreed - if a private company had that kind of vacancy rate, you can bet your life they'd put the salary up. That's before you even consider the essential nature of the work.

It's undeniably a complex issue with no simple fix, but I also think a lot of that noise comes from the top to avoid the obvious reality that nearly every frontline worker is underpaid and overworked. No doubt there is nuance to 'fixing the NHS', but a f***in start would be paying the staff a decent living, not expecting them to work 70 hour weeks and making the role attractive enough to recruit decent candidates.

 

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View HKOwen's Profile HKOwen Flag Hong Kong 13 Dec 22 11.00am Send a Private Message to HKOwen Add HKOwen as a friend

I am pleased to see almost all the posts are good sensible and ideology free.

It confirms my belief the problem is the politicians downwards through the NHS management.

I suspect it is thoroughly broken from procurement to planning to wasted hires

 


Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag The garden of England 13 Dec 22 11.01am Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by YT

But we all love the NHS and think it's wonderful and are happy for it to cost as much as it costs.....provided it's other people who are paying for it. And provided we aren't the ones suing the NHS for compensation.

I see the usual luvvies are firmly on the bandwagon with the imminent release of a movie of the Alan Bennett play 'Allelujah'. On BBC Breakfast this morning, Jennifer Saunders was allowed to make at least two incorrect statements without any challenge from the presenters:

1) "with all the NHS cuts going on....blah, blah". Err.. you mean the cuts that have meant more money and a higher percentage of GDP than ever is now being spent on it?

2) (Paraphrased) "I remember when I was young, old people went to hospital, and when they came out they all went to something called a 'convalescent home' to recover. Well where have all the convalescent homes gone now? Old people now just rot in hospital" Errr I'm about the same age as you, Jen, and I certainly don't recall any such thing as an NHS convalescent home, and if there were some, there certainly weren't enough to accommodate ALL old, ill people. My recollection is that old people went into hospital and came out feet first in a box. Now we keep them alive at any cost.

Edited by YT (13 Dec 2022 9.10am)

Your last line is a serious bone of contention. We get old and we die. Not kept alive at a cost of thousands so someone can tick a box and feel good about it. Brutal yes but life does end.

 

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View The Dolphin's Profile The Dolphin Flag 13 Dec 22 11.08am Send a Private Message to The Dolphin Add The Dolphin as a friend

I am probably just rehashing previous posts but my view is that it is broken and no amount of money can fix it without huge reform.
Those in charge generally waste the money and on top of that appoint more chiefs on silly salaries.
The Government should pay for all clinical staff training and only get any of that back if those staff leave their posts for whatever reason - there can be a "got to work for us for X years" clause in there or lose your training costs (pro-rata).
Needing to take a degree course to be a Nurse is utter madness and that should be removed immediately.
Local works best and each Trust should be totally in charge of its area.
The money given needs to be spent wisely - but like every department in Government it is now.
The list is endless but it does need to stop being political and needs cross party support with the way forward enshrined in law so that it cannot be changed on a political whim.

 

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View Nicholas91's Profile Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 13 Dec 22 11.10am Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

Yep, agreed - if a private company had that kind of vacancy rate, you can bet your life they'd put the salary up. That's before you even consider the essential nature of the work.

It's undeniably a complex issue with no simple fix, but I also think a lot of that noise comes from the top to avoid the obvious reality that nearly every frontline worker is underpaid and overworked. No doubt there is nuance to 'fixing the NHS', but a f***in start would be paying the staff a decent living, not expecting them to work 70 hour weeks and making the role attractive enough to recruit decent candidates.

All of this boils down to good management within said organisation.

My (somewhat uninformed) opinion of the NHS is that it has been existence so long and transitioned from government to government (naturally) so a lot of it's problems have been somewhat organic in the very nature of it's existence and lifespan.

It is poor management, whether that is senior leaders or governments, which has led to a very nonstrategic approach and management of the workforce and thus a cacophony and snowballing of issues. Only keeping 'half an eye' on such matters from the outset, or at least some time ago, would have equally halved the problems.

The sad state now is that the NHS is underappreciated as to the quite frankly astonishing institution it is and by extension so are it's employees who, without exaggeration, I hold in the highest regard and think others should do too.

The investment (sincerity and less so financial), silo management of it, it's 'political football' status and a general disregard for it's workforce are all elements that must be addressed to give it any chance of sustaining let alone improving.

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Online Flag 13 Dec 22 11.20am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

Yep, agreed - if a private company had that kind of vacancy rate, you can bet your life they'd put the salary up. That's before you even consider the essential nature of the work.

It's undeniably a complex issue with no simple fix, but I also think a lot of that noise comes from the top to avoid the obvious reality that nearly every frontline worker is underpaid and overworked. No doubt there is nuance to 'fixing the NHS', but a f***in start would be paying the staff a decent living, not expecting them to work 70 hour weeks and making the role attractive enough to recruit decent candidates.

Too many chiefs on high pay with nice cars and not enough Indians.

Many such cases.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Online Flag 13 Dec 22 11.24am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by The Dolphin

I am probably just rehashing previous posts but my view is that it is broken and no amount of money can fix it without huge reform.
Those in charge generally waste the money and on top of that appoint more chiefs on silly salaries.
The Government should pay for all clinical staff training and only get any of that back if those staff leave their posts for whatever reason - there can be a "got to work for us for X years" clause in there or lose your training costs (pro-rata).
Needing to take a degree course to be a Nurse is utter madness and that should be removed immediately.
Local works best and each Trust should be totally in charge of its area.
The money given needs to be spent wisely - but like every department in Government it is now.
The list is endless but it does need to stop being political and needs cross party support with the way forward enshrined in law so that it cannot be changed on a political whim.

You're talking common sense and they know all this.

However the system is made up of competing interests that mean nothing sensible happens.

We also knows this....what really grinds the gears is when the politicians of all colours gaslight the public....openly lie about all of it.

Edited by Stirlingsays (13 Dec 2022 11.25am)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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