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June 3 2024 10.19am

Female Dr Who?

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View Ray in Houston's Profile Ray in Houston Flag Houston 18 Jul 17 8.06pm Send a Private Message to Ray in Houston Add Ray in Houston as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

I identify with a White character because I'm white.
If you can't see that that is a perfectly normal human condition then I can't help you.
As I have previously said. Bond is not just any old character. He is a cinematic icon. I have no desire to see him change colour and why would I? There are plenty of other characters played very well by Black actors and I'm sure there will be many more.


What if that white man was a Russian, or French, or Norwegian, or American. Did you identify with the German bomber pilots in "Battle of Britain"? They're white; very much so in fact.

Did you object to when the Craig-Bond movies took a white character - Felix Leiter - that had been written as white and always played by a white man - and turned him black?

Edited by Ray in Houston (18 Jul 2017 8.10pm)

 


We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 18 Jul 17 8.09pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Ray in Houston


Such statements aren't racist; the motivation driving them may be, however.

If you want Shaft to be white because you think that such a depiction would be an interesting exploration of race in our culture, then that's not racist. If you want Shaft to be white because you're white, that's racist.

Are you for real?
You need to get out more bud.

 

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View Ray in Houston's Profile Ray in Houston Flag Houston 18 Jul 17 8.11pm Send a Private Message to Ray in Houston Add Ray in Houston as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Are you for real?
You need to get out more bud.


I moved to a whole nother country. Where are you?

 


We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 18 Jul 17 8.21pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Ray in Houston


They just did Shakespeare's "Julius Caesar" in Central Park in New York. They updated it to be - not about ancient Romans - but about a modern day saviour/strongman leader who wears ties that are too long, too much self-tanner and has too much hair swirled around on his head.

You could remake, for example, "The Color Purple" but set it in ISIS-controlled Syria and still maintain the core story of violence towards and suppression of a young girl.

You can remake anything into anything - more often than not to a lesser end. So, if you portray Bond as a modern figure in the modern era - as the current Bond is - the character can played by anyone as long as you stay true to what makes the character work, not the superficial look.

Yeah, I'd say that is all valid.

Art, for art's sake, doesn't have to hold true to boundaries.....I suppose if I see something as tokenism or as just being done to push ideologies it pisses me off a bit....But art as a pure art form of expression shouldn't be told what it can and can't do....Yeah I'd agree with that.

Still, it's also perfectly valid to criticise it from pretty much most perspectives as I suppose that is the core of what art is....viewponts and perspectives.

I like the fantasy of Bond as this British strong representative of anglo saxonism....But I know that it is what it is....just a fiction designed to entertain a demographic and pass leisure time for them....It won't be to everyone's tastes and I don't think any art form can be...Or really should try in a perfect world....Though we know that commercial art forms are obviously under massive pressures to make their investments back.

The skin colour is more an aesthetic.....more important to some more than others but I'm fine with however people feel about it.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 18 Jul 17 8.27pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Ray in Houston


What if that white man was a Russian, or French, or Norwegian, or American. Did you identify with the German bomber pilots in "Battle of Britain"? They're white; very much so in fact.

Did you object to when the Craig-Bond movies took a white character - Felix Leiter - that had been written as white and always played by a white man - and turned him black?

Edited by Ray in Houston (18 Jul 2017 8.10pm)


One does not really think too much about peripheral characters in films so German pilots really aren't very relevant to this conversation.
Felix Leiter has been played by 10 different actors, 2 have been Black. I thought Jeffrey Wright was a good Leiter and I was disappointed that he did not feature in the recent films. David Hedison and Jack Lord are the ones that people generally remember. His character is a generally a minor supporting role and his back story is not well established. Therefore his ethnicity is not particularly significant. It is, however, an opportunity to have a black actor in the film to appeal to that demographic. You know, in the way you call 'racist'.

Me thinks you might not live in the real world.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 18 Jul 17 8.29pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Ray in Houston


"I prefer white people to black people."

That's a statement of preference; is it racist?

It's actually a good philosophical question.

If you took that statement as actually that then yes, I'd say it's racist to an extent....But isn't that your summary? Personally I didn't take that as what he was saying.

Wasn't he saying that he felt that Bond being white represented him more....I don't see how that's different to what a lot of black people call for.

Personally I don't see that as being 'racist' from either of them. I think we all know racism when we see it. It's in how you treat people.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 18 Jul 17 8.29pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Ray in Houston


I moved to a whole nother country. Where are you?

It ain't where you live, it is where your mind is at.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 18 Jul 17 8.33pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Ray in Houston


What if that white man was a Russian, or French, or Norwegian, or American. Did you identify with the German bomber pilots in "Battle of Britain"? They're white; very much so in fact.

Did you object to when the Craig-Bond movies took a white character - Felix Leiter - that had been written as white and always played by a white man - and turned him black?

Edited by Ray in Houston (18 Jul 2017 8.10pm)

Isn't it more about representing him....So being white and British/English is more important than just being white.

Being white and German isn't the same.

I suppose it's all about degrees of separation from the fiction or reality.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 18 Jul 17 8.36pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Ray in Houston


"I prefer white people to black people."

That's a statement of preference; is it racist?

So when Black people call for more roles for Black actors or more Black role models on TV, that is racist is it?

By your reckoning, it must be or else they would be happy to see only White faces.

 

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View Ray in Houston's Profile Ray in Houston Flag Houston 18 Jul 17 8.37pm Send a Private Message to Ray in Houston Add Ray in Houston as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Yeah, I'd say that is all valid.

Art, for art's sake, doesn't have to hold true to boundaries.....I suppose if I see something as tokenism or as just being done to push ideologies it pisses me off a bit....But art as a pure art form of expression shouldn't be told what it can and can't do....Yeah I'd agree with that.

Still, it's also perfectly valid to criticise it from pretty much most perspectives as I suppose that is the core of what art is....viewponts and perspectives.

I like the fantasy of Bond as this British strong representative of anglo saxonism....But I know that it is what it is....just a fiction designed to entertain a demographic and pass leisure time for them....It won't be to everyone's tastes and I don't think any art form can be...Or really should try in a perfect world....Though we know that commercial art forms are obviously under massive pressures to make their investments back.

The skin colour is more an aesthetic.....more important to some more than others but I'm fine with however people feel about it.


"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."

 


We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 18 Jul 17 8.41pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Ray in Houston


Such statements aren't racist; the motivation driving them may be, however.

If you want Shaft to be white because you think that such a depiction would be an interesting exploration of race in our culture, then that's not racist. If you want Shaft to be white because you're white, that's racist.

No, that was a typo....Shaft being 'white'"...what the feck am I thinking.

I've corrected it.

A white 'shaft' would make a good comedy possibility....reversing a lot of these things has that context.....Also playing it straight for the demographics who want their stuff is fine too.

If I think there's an agenda behind it I have my moan...I've been moaning about the writers and producers of Dr Who pretty much since they brought it back.

Still, everything has its place.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 18 Jul 17 8.42pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Ray in Houston


"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."

Now that was a wonderful human being.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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