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Badger11 Beckenham 19 Apr 22 9.45am | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
That's an obviously unrealistic concept. If "all 8 billion" turned up, they couldn't all be asylum seekers because it would have to include everyone they were fleeing from too! This is an international problem that cannot be solved by one country setting its own arbitrary limits, which would create more problems than it solved. If international conventions need modification, then they need to be agreed at UN level. That's not to say we cannot take a firm line on determining who is genuinely entitled to asylum, process things more quickly and avoid the impression of us being a soft target for the victims of the people smuggling gangs, but just setting a number is an impractical, unattainable approach. The international community has no interest in solving this problem they much prefer to pass the problem onto other countries further down the line. So Greece / Italy / Balkan countries allow the migrants free passage through there countries to dump the problem on France and Germany. The French are happy to pass it onto to us otherwise they would not allow these illegal migrant camps and would process these people and either give them residency or deport them. Unfortunately we are at the end of the line so can't dump the problem on someone else so we have to come up with a solution. The others countries will watch and wait and if it works will no doubt copy it.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 19 Apr 22 9.46am | |
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Originally posted by Badger11
When those agreements were starting to be made it was at a time when we had handfuls of people escaping communist oppression in Eastern Europe. The lawmakers did not envisage mass migration from across the world. As Spiderman has pointed out the overwhelming majority of migrants are not asylum seekers but due to the sheer volume they are never returned. The definition of Asylum seeker has also been watered down by our courts it was supposed to be for political opponents who faced death or imprisonment in their home country. Today if you are from Jamaica (A democratic country) and gay you can claim asylum. The definition of Asylum needs to be re-defined and targetted at genuine political refugees and not at anyone who would have a hard life back home. But the question still is how do you stop criminal gangs and economic migrants abusing the asylum system whilst allowing genuine cases to remain. I have previously said I am not convinced that this Rwanda deal is the right solution that said Priti Patel is correct when she asks all her critics what's their solution? They have no answer, apparently Labour's policy is closer co-operation with the French which has not worked up till now despite the millions of pounds we have paid them. The truth is that most of the loudest voices don't want any controls at all so no solution will ever be desirable in their eyes. Edited by Badger11 (19 Apr 2022 7.56am) Edited by Badger11 (19 Apr 2022 7.58am) That all may be true, but we cannot change international conventions on our own. We have no realistic choice other than to work within them, and then argue for change. An argument which would be much stronger when made together with allies, such as could be found within the EU. Allies who now see us differently. Dealing with the criminal gangs is indeed the major issue and one that most demands European wide co-operation to overcome. Especially with the French, who have their own problems and are known, for good reason, to be perfidious in these matters. Us taking a hard line with gays from Jamaica is not going to stop any rubber boats full of North African economic migrants. Nor are the French, unless they are required to do so.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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silvertop Portishead 19 Apr 22 10.01am | |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
The criminal gangs and traffickers are actually the UK government this is state trafficking. I think the country has had it with the tories just a feeling that the line has been crossed.
You are Dave Spart from Private Eye. I claim my £5.
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silvertop Portishead 19 Apr 22 10.02am | |
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Originally posted by Runningman
Sigh, not this rubbish again.
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silvertop Portishead 19 Apr 22 10.11am | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
So your logic is that we should ignore the biggest factor just because there are others. Good thinking. Covid and Brexit have little to do with it. Climate change causes migration. You will do anything to avoid the obvious because you are an idealistic delusional. You know I agree with you on climate change, but the banking crisis did cause a reduction in housing - especially at the poorer end - and a reduction in investment in health. I know you have not said it, but others have. Labour did not have a policy on mass immigration. This conspiracy nut stuff about them getting in immigrants to boost their vote is pure tosh. They just had a big problem and did little effective about it. So, they spent their money elsewhere. Meanwhile, they have been out of power for some time. The Tories just won a landslide on a populist block the immigrants manifesto. All they appear to have done is discourage literate, skilled Europeans from coming here. Poor form too I would say.
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Hrolf The Ganger 19 Apr 22 10.29am | |
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Originally posted by silvertop
You know I agree with you on climate change, but the banking crisis did cause a reduction in housing - especially at the poorer end - and a reduction in investment in health. I know you have not said it, but others have. Labour did not have a policy on mass immigration. This conspiracy nut stuff about them getting in immigrants to boost their vote is pure tosh. They just had a big problem and did little effective about it. So, they spent their money elsewhere. Meanwhile, they have been out of power for some time. The Tories just won a landslide on a populist block the immigrants manifesto. All they appear to have done is discourage literate, skilled Europeans from coming here. Poor form too I would say. It added to a problem that already existed and continues to exist. It was not the cause. One can only speculate about Labour's reasons for opening the flood gates. I'm not sure that a limited influx of skilled Europeans was ever on the minds of Tory voters. Neither did this government win anything simply because of blocking immigrants. It was more about the betrayal of a democratic referendum vote and the ineptitude of Labour and its leadership, along with the abandonment of their traditional support in favour of the immigrant vote.
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the silurian The garden of England.(not really) 19 Apr 22 10.30am | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
As I doubt anyone is actually happy with the current situation, it's not really a question that demands an answer. The "maximum number" is not an appropriate measurement when dealing with asylum seekers. Asylum is granted on the need of the seeker alone. We have internationally agreed obligations that we simply cannot ignore. Those who think we can set a limit and then simply close the door are living in cloud-cuckoo-land. How we manage the asylum seekers once we have provided them a safe refuge is another matter. How many are there in Cornwall, not many Ill bet, from what I saw last week there are very very few......if any !! Edited by the silurian (19 Apr 2022 10.31am)
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Rudi Hedman Caterham 19 Apr 22 10.37am | |
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Originally posted by Badger11
The international community has no interest in solving this problem they much prefer to pass the problem onto other countries further down the line. So Greece / Italy / Balkan countries allow the migrants free passage through there countries to dump the problem on France and Germany. The French are happy to pass it onto to us otherwise they would not allow these illegal migrant camps and would process these people and either give them residency or deport them. Unfortunately we are at the end of the line so can't dump the problem on someone else so we have to come up with a solution. The others countries will watch and wait and if it works will no doubt copy it. When I hear the usual people saying how we take in fewer than the other major European countries and we should be taking in more, I ask 2 questions. Why should we have to and doesn’t this competitive charity going to blow up in our faces? Edited by Rudi Hedman (19 Apr 2022 10.49am)
COYP |
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Rudi Hedman Caterham 19 Apr 22 10.39am | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
That all may be true, but we cannot change international conventions on our own. We have no realistic choice other than to work within them, and then argue for change. An argument which would be much stronger when made together with allies, such as could be found within the EU. Allies who now see us differently. Dealing with the criminal gangs is indeed the major issue and one that most demands European wide co-operation to overcome. Especially with the French, who have their own problems and are known, for good reason, to be perfidious in these matters. Us taking a hard line with gays from Jamaica is not going to stop any rubber boats full of North African economic migrants. Nor are the French, unless they are required to do so. I’ve heard that’s easier than some like to make out since they’re aware of the gangs and where they start the journeys.
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Badger11 Beckenham 19 Apr 22 10.42am | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
That all may be true, but we cannot change international conventions on our own. We have no realistic choice other than to work within them, and then argue for change. An argument which would be much stronger when made together with allies, such as could be found within the EU. Allies who now see us differently. Dealing with the criminal gangs is indeed the major issue and one that most demands European wide co-operation to overcome. Especially with the French, who have their own problems and are known, for good reason, to be perfidious in these matters. Us taking a hard line with gays from Jamaica is not going to stop any rubber boats full of North African economic migrants. Nor are the French, unless they are required to do so. It was one example of stretching the definition of asylum, In Iran they execute gays so that is a valid reason to claim asylum as it is state sponsored. As for the French they will not do anything until migrants stop trying to get to the UK and decide to settle in France.
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PalazioVecchio south pole 19 Apr 22 10.58am | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Maybe not, but Britain is road testing a solution that if it is successful, can be adopted by the other lilly livered European governments. Inaction will be far more damaging. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (19 Apr 2022 9.39am) The irish government will be sending irish citizens off to Rwanda. To stop all their complaining.
Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford |
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 19 Apr 22 11.02am | |
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Originally posted by the silurian
How many are there in Cornwall, not many Ill bet, from what I saw last week there are very very few......if any !! Edited by the silurian (19 Apr 2022 10.31am) What on earth has that, even it were true, got to do with anything? Newly arrived immigrants tend to go where there is work and an established community. That is usually the big cities. The seasonal work here tends to be unattractive to such people, unless temporarily here on a specific agricultural scheme. The NHS employs many international workers, but you are unlikely to be aware of them unless you use the NHS. They work. They don't play. Cornwall is a tourist, agricultural, fishing and retirement area. None of which hold much attraction for new immigrants.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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