This is as disingenuous as the EU itself.....So mealy mouthed and it's just not straight with people.

The EU commission is the only....and I state only body, that can propose laws that go into the treaties.

If they haven't come up with it.....it isn't a law within the EU.....None of them are elected.

These treaties are binding to all member states. You have situations....like we had, where the people in a country haven't been allowed a vote on EU membership or treaty for forty or more years.....Democratic my foot.

These treaties, though they are from a foreign body and change the laws in every EU country do not have to be subject to a democratic vote unless that country's law requires it and the laws within them are binding.

So for example Gordon Brown quite famously signed this country into the 'Treaty of Lisbon'.....in an incredibly divisive act that helped add to the rifts that led to the referendum.

Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Feb 2020 7.23pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

The future has been forecasted by enough experts to be assessed on the balance of probabilities to be significantly worse after the full Brexit, of whatever stripe, takes effect than if we had stayed in. Of course they could be wrong. It might not be quite that bad or it might be even worse.

My children, and grandchildren are all independently minded and have all reached the same conclusions without the slightest influence from me. Other than the upbringing I gave them.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

I have always rejected the concept of a referendum result throwing up a winner or a loser. Especially one this close. All it does is show where the balance of opinion lies. All opinions need to be respected and compromises sought as a consequence. To speak of winners and losers is to divide the people and that is exactly what has happened.

It is far from just my opinion that Brexit wasn't a wise decision. Many far more knowledgeable than me about economics and national security have expressed grave concerns

Too often the leavers have tried to taunt those who voted to remain with this assertion and tried to blame them for the divide. How often have we heard "suck it up, losers"? You do it again in your comment above.

It isn't true and it isn't healthy. .

Most of all it's very juvenile.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Proposing and implementing laws, within the objectives of existing treaties, is not enacting new law. It is carrying out the delegated instructions of EU member states.

Treaties are democratically approved by EU members.

Delegated responsibility does not alter where the final authority rests.

Claiming anything else is what is truly disingenuous.

[Link]

The idea that the commission is some kind of undemocratic monster which has controlled everything is 100% propaganda and scaremongering. It is the servant of the EU members and not their master.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

? Errr....This guy is a willing contributor to these forums but still plays the victim card, even though he probably out posts most.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

And maybe, just maybe certain leave voters saw it that way too.

There were a multitude of reasons for and against and you may not like being tarred as a “remoaner” (a term I don’t personally agree with) but I took the view that it was a stand against further integration for integrations sake. Greece etc didn’t avoid it and if they take a stand no one will really care.

The point being is that it may be The UK leaving is what the EU needs to reform. At some point the question will get posed again, but for now (ignoring the tub thumping little Englander syndrome) a significant number of intelligent people voted to Leave. That suggests it’s broken.