The 80 seat majority was all down to Corbyn and the stupidity of Momentum combined with Brexit weariness. "Get Brexit Done" was a great buy line, but selling our future ought never be allowed to happen.

Whilst getting rid of Corbyn was as important to our ability to oppose right wing politics effectively as getting rid of Trump was in the USA that ought to have happened prior to the 2019 election. Had that happened everything would have been different.

This country would never vote into power a party led by a Marxist. That's the reality.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

We had better not start another Brexit was the "will of the people" debate or we will see this thread diverted. You know as well as I do that I, and people like me, disagree with the whole idea of such important decisions being subject to the political winds of fortune and shenanigans in a parliamentary democracy. I expect our professional elected representatives to do their job and decide on our behalf what is best for the country as a whole,

If the EU had of been asked to help secure a yes vote again, having seen what happened when they failed to do enough for Cameron, then we would certainly have got better terms for staying in, which would have been tied, by us, to some of them being in place whatever the outcome. That's down to good negotiating.

Brexit was a pigs breakfast from start to finish which we will still be eating 20 years or more from now.

Never in my lifetime have so many foolish decisions be taken in sequence. Now everyone can see for themselves what many of us realised from the start, that Johnson is nothing more than an opportunist who would support any cause if he thought it would benefit him personally.

These are sad times for us all. The only redemption is that the government has followed the advice of the professionals on covid.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

I know of 4 people. Re covid; imagine if we didn't have the ability to buy the vaccine without the eu permission. More death, more financial outlay,more lockdowns. The finance alone would overtake any potential losses made for the foreseeable so if its about money then leaving has in fact saved the UK money. The fact it was unseen is irrelevant. Fact is stranger than fiction!

Starmer has remained largely unnoticed by the media. There is great political capital to be made from Government errors, and yet Starmer still appears to be continuing his 'support role' he advocated at the start of Covid.
Having no perceived viable opposition is politically damaging to the UK, regardless of your political sway.

Politicians should be held to account for their actions.
And Starmer should be held to account for his inaction.

I disengage, I turn the page.

Of course, but one supported by evidence rather than wishful thinking. Even the most ardent "sovereignty is more valuable than mere economics" Brexiteer understands that.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Yup all guess work wissie as Tom says. If the vaccine saved your life and being in the eu meant you wouldn't have it yet, I reckon brexit is a positive. What age would be having it now do you think if we didn't brexit? I'm guessing just finishing the 60s.

You are the one doing the guessing! We have no idea what our situation would have been had we stayed in. You are simply assuming that the EU would have dictated what we did, and that we would not have impacted what they did. As neither can be known making any assumptions is a pointless waste of time

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

It is nearly polling day Sir Keir.

Do you think you can interest us with a policy?

Sorry to bother you of course.

Indeed

We though aren't "other bloc countries" are we! We have played a leading role in fighting the virus and have developed one of the most important vaccines.

We have never been one of the minor players. Our voice mattered and we also were often outliers in the way we approached things, so your assumptions are just that. Assumptions. With The NHS behind them our government may well have dealt with this differently to other countries. This assumption that the EU could force us to toe a line is simply untrue. They could have expected, and even demanded, a unified approach but there is no guarantee we would have obliged, if our government had decided otherwise. This is what the Brexiteers failed to comprehend. We always remained an independent nation state who were able to put our own interests first if circumstances demanded we did so. That the EU Commission decided to adopt a common strategy does not mean we would have agreed to join it.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.