No doubt. Not sure how or why that is controversial though. Or anything other than expected in this particular situation. My point was the emerging theme here that NATO is the puppet master is hyperbolic.

Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

I suspect earlier in the war NATO had a tight grip over Ukraine however as the Ukrainian military has grown in confidence the reigns have come off somewhat.

I maintain NATO are balls deep in this conflict, it's inevitable really.

The mountains are calling & I must go.

I think if you compare Zelensky's statements in March/April to the statements in more recent months I think its obvious.

As for negotiations, let's just say that I don't think they have been going well. I think it's obvious that they have both decided to go onto exhaustion: they are all in.....and the side that 'loses' are going to be incredibly p1ssed off which then becomes very risky for all of us.

Personally I think you are taking about common sense taking over before then....Well I certainly pray you are right.....but I suggest SW19 that if common sense were the order of the day then this war would never have happened in the first place.

Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Oct 2022 2.02pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

this is the crux of it as I see it. This is a battle for freedom and sovereignty the Ukrainians are entitled to. It's all very well giving a viewpint from this side of Europe, very different when Russian tanks are rolling down your street threatening your very way of life. I hope we and the rest of the allied nations back the Ukrainians until they force the Ruskies (and Putin) out. Hopefully there are enough higher ups in the Russian regime to create a coup when it's obvious to all but Putin that he's lost this crusade.

If there is going to be a 2nd Kyiv offensive Russia & Belarus need to hurry up as the Ukrainian mud season will soon be upon us & we saw how that crippled the Russians trying to encircle Kyiv.
If it doesnt happen soon then they will have to wait until January - where I am the temperature will drop to -15c/-25c a bit further east from me id imagine it would be a constant -20c ground will be bullet proof.

The mountains are calling & I must go.

The Russians are saying that their counter offensive is ready to go in two or three weeks and that they intend to start in November and have it practically finished in February. Something Ukraine and Nato will be well aware of so we will see where we are in February. I'm not seeing how Russia can take major territory when the roads are unsuitable for heavy equipment like tanks but there you go.

War is misinformation so how much of that is genuine or true is unknown. However, from where I sit I'd say it's pretty obvious that Russia have brought forward their infrastructure hits that they were probably planning before their major push....due to the Crimean bridge was attacked. Maybe that brings forward their offensive as well....or not, because it's all guessimation and all those troops require the logistics, equipment and so on before they attack.

It's all pretty terrible but despite what some are saying I don't think there is any desire to negotiate seriously on any of this.....We are in cold war and I regard that as a huge huge mistake, generational in the making, and that has world changing complications for all of us.

Morons have recreated the unsafe world I was raised in where we all had to worry about nukes and we are surrounded by people who think like it's all a Hollywood movie that isn't going to affect them which has a happy ending.

Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Oct 2022 5.25pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)