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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 13 Apr 24 7.51pm | |
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Originally posted by georgenorman
Your continued support of child mutilation is sickening but not surprising. On what possible basis can my comment on the potential reasons why clinicians feel unable to release information they might feel is personal be construed as support for child mutilation? I have read some nonsense in these pages but that will take some beating.,
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 13 Apr 24 8.06pm | |
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Originally posted by cryrst
‘Compromise their patients’ I think that horse bolted with the first pill they gave them to take. Alongside how trans can’t resist telling the world about their transition. They are much more knowledgeable and experienced than either of us and I very much doubt they would deliberately try to obstruct an enquiry that could help reassure the public about their work. So there must be a very important ethical reason behind this. I guess we will discover that in due time. What trans people do themselves has nothing to do with those clinicians charged with trying to help and advise them. I have no personal involvement but I do have more personal knowledge than some, due to the experiences of family members. As a consequence I have rather more compassion than some posters here are displaying.
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cryrst The garden of England 13 Apr 24 8.13pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
They are much more knowledgeable and experienced than either of us and I very much doubt they would deliberately try to obstruct an enquiry that could help reassure the public about their work. So there must be a very important ethical reason behind this. I guess we will discover that in due time. What trans people do themselves has nothing to do with those clinicians charged with trying to help and advise them. I have no personal involvement but I do have more personal knowledge than some, due to the experiences of family members. As a consequence I have rather more compassion than some posters here are displaying. It’s not about a lack of compassion. It’s about a lack of conversation and time. 10-16 year olds being given chemicals to start a gender change is wrong. You are down the rabbit hole with this so won’t see the possible cover up for wrongdoing being the reason for non disclosure of information.
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georgenorman 13 Apr 24 8.13pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
On what possible basis can my comment on the potential reasons why clinicians feel unable to release information they might feel is personal be construed as support for child mutilation? I have read some nonsense in these pages but that will take some beating., It is obvious that they acted with criminal recklessness and hopefully they will face prosecution. Meanwhile your support for the Frankenstein Castle that was the Tavistock Clinic is also obvious from the long list of posts from you supporting their disgusting activities.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 13 Apr 24 8.15pm | |
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Originally posted by Badger11
Sure and my guess is that they are covering up a disaster. Nobody is asking for names addresses and telephone numbers. You simply redact the patient details and call them patient A B or C etc. The NHS provides redacted data on most of us to outside parties such as pharmaceutical companies or for research purposes. There is no excuse for withholding it and in fact it may well help the Trans cause by proving that most patients have transitioned successfully. Withholding this data which is treatment paid for by our taxes will only lead people to suspect there is something to hide. You don’t know the reason any more than I do. I just have more confidence in the integrity of those in the NHS who devote their lives trying to make others better. Sure, redaction and anonymity look like obvious routes to providing the data. So obvious it must be something else. Your cynicism says it must be a cover up. My trust says it won’t be. I suspect that because the numbers involved are small it is feared that no amount of disguise will protect the vulnerable from intrusive enquiry. Time will tell.
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cryrst The garden of England 13 Apr 24 8.25pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
You don’t know the reason any more than I do. I just have more confidence in the integrity of those in the NHS who devote their lives trying to make others better. Sure, redaction and anonymity look like obvious routes to providing the data. So obvious it must be something else. Your cynicism says it must be a cover up. My trust says it won’t be. I suspect that because the numbers involved are small it is feared that no amount of disguise will protect the vulnerable from intrusive enquiry. Time will tell. Maybe the numbers are a lot bigger than assumed. This could be the fly in the ointment for these clinics. No customers means no work as the saying goes. These quacks not even trying to dissuade one person are just wrong and need a whack with a book.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 13 Apr 24 8.33pm | |
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Originally posted by georgenorman
It is obvious that they acted with criminal recklessness and hopefully they will face prosecution. Meanwhile your support for the Frankenstein Castle that was the Tavistock Clinic is also obvious from the long list of posts from you supporting their disgusting activities. Let me make it very plain that I have had no involvement with the Tavistock Clinic and have next to no knowledge of its activities. Suggesting I have provided any support for it is completely untrue. All I have ever done is try to show more understanding for those suffering from gender dysphoria and for those trying to help them. Compassion is what is required. Not outspoken criticism based solely on prejudice and offered by non clinicians. Describing treatments as “child mutilation” is very clear evidence of that prejudice. I have no problem whatsoever for expert reviews looking at all the current knowledge gathered both here and abroad with a view to determining best practice. Making sure that what is done is safe and appropriate is surely what every reasonable person wants. Salving prejudice is not what’s needed.
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georgenorman 13 Apr 24 8.38pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Let me make it very plain that I have had no involvement with the Tavistock Clinic and have next to no knowledge of its activities. Suggesting I have provided any support for it is completely untrue. All I have ever done is try to show more understanding for those suffering from gender dysphoria and for those trying to help them. Compassion is what is required. Not outspoken criticism based solely on prejudice and offered by non clinicians. Describing treatments as “child mutilation” is very clear evidence of that prejudice. I have no problem whatsoever for expert reviews looking at all the current knowledge gathered both here and abroad with a view to determining best practice. Making sure that what is done is safe and appropriate is surely what every reasonable person wants. Salving prejudice is not what’s needed. They castrate vulnerable children.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 13 Apr 24 8.39pm | |
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Originally posted by cryrst
Maybe the numbers are a lot bigger than assumed. This could be the fly in the ointment for these clinics. No customers means no work as the saying goes. These quacks not even trying to dissuade one person are just wrong and need a whack with a book. They aren’t “quacks”! They are qualified clinicians. It is NHS Trusts refusing to provide data. Not private clinics. Why do you think they don’t try to dissuade? I know that isn’t true at all. There is a very thorough appraisal, review of options and insistence on consultation over a long time.
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Teddy Eagle 13 Apr 24 8.42pm | |
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 13 Apr 24 9.18pm | |
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Originally posted by georgenorman
They castrate vulnerable children. Unless I misunderstand the situation they have now closed. From the little I know they found themselves understaffed and were making decisions too quickly. It was questions about informed consent by young people with mental health problems that caused the closure. Some of them with very severe mental health issues. I don’t think anyone was “castrated”. I thought they prescribed hormone treatments to block puberty without properly assessing the risks. Those treatments have now been suspended for young people. Perhaps this might inform:- What some describe, emotionally, as castration others describe as gender affirming surgery! It all depends on your perspective and whether you are suffering from gender dysphoria. Importantly, contrary to popular opinion, as less than 1% of those undergoing such surgery later express regret perhaps it would be better to leave it up to those involved to decide. Imposing personal prejudices on others is not showing compassion. Just so long as the decisions are made safely.
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georgenorman 13 Apr 24 9.29pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Unless I misunderstand the situation they have now closed. From the little I know they found themselves understaffed and were making decisions too quickly. It was questions about informed consent by young people with mental health problems that caused the closure. Some of them with very severe mental health issues. I don’t think anyone was “castrated”. I thought they prescribed hormone treatments to block puberty without properly assessing the risks. Those treatments have now been suspended for young people. Perhaps this might inform:- What some describe, emotionally, as castration others describe as gender affirming surgery! It all depends on your perspective and whether you are suffering from gender dysphoria. Importantly, contrary to popular opinion, as less than 1% of those undergoing such surgery later express regret perhaps it would be better to leave it up to those involved to decide. Imposing personal prejudices on others is not showing compassion. Just so long as the decisions are made safely. "There are some ideas so wrong that only a very intelligent person could believe in them." [Orwell]
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