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 Wisbech Eagle  Truro Cornwall 13 Apr 24 10.13pm |
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Originally posted by cryrst
It’s not about a lack of compassion. It’s about a lack of conversation and time. 10-16 year olds being given chemicals to start a gender change is wrong. You are down the rabbit hole with this so won’t see the possible cover up for wrongdoing being the reason for non disclosure of information. The lack of conversation and time was what brought down the Tavistock and rightfully caused the review. Getting the decisions right is obviously vital. That though is completely separate to the lack of compassion shown by some towards those involved.
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Teddy Eagle  13 Apr 24 10.29pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
The lack of conversation and time was what brought down the Tavistock and rightfully caused the review. Getting the decisions right is obviously vital. That though is completely separate to the lack of compassion shown by some towards those involved. Isn't it compassionate to think the course of someone's life shouldn't be decided by feelings they had as a child?
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 13 Apr 24 11.11pm |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
Isn't it compassionate to think the course of someone's life shouldn't be decided by feelings they had as a child? It could be, alongside the same compassion to understand confusion and distress in those affected. Both the individual and their family. From all I know the clinicians understand perfectly well the need to ensure this and that Tavistock got it wrong, who believed that the puberty blockers suspended puberty rather than cancel it, thinking it was completely reversible. The lack of compassion that I am referring to is coming from those who seem to regard gender dysphoria as an invention, and worse, something attributed to the “left”. Some people just dismiss very real problems as attention seeking.
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| Teddy Eagle 13 Apr 24 11.25pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
It could be, alongside the same compassion to understand confusion and distress in those affected. Both the individual and their family. From all I know the clinicians understand perfectly well the need to ensure this and that Tavistock got it wrong, who believed that the puberty blockers suspended puberty rather than cancel it, thinking it was completely reversible. The lack of compassion that I am referring to is coming from those who seem to regard gender dysphoria as an invention, and worse, something attributed to the “left”. Some people just dismiss very real problems as attention seeking. The problem with that sometimes it will be attention seeking. This isn't a criticism; just recognising that teenagers tend to be attracted to the issue of the day.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 13 Apr 24 11.42pm |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
The problem with that sometimes it will be attention seeking. This isn't a criticism; just recognising that teenagers tend to be attracted to the issue of the day. For sure, but an experienced, trained clinician will be able to spot that and gently treat it, rather than just respond to what the teenager is requesting. That seems to be where Tavistock failed. Something that’s unlikely to be repeated.
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cryrst  The garden of England 14 Apr 24 7.59am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
For sure, but an experienced, trained clinician will be able to spot that and gently treat it, rather than just respond to what the teenager is requesting. That seems to be where Tavistock failed. Something that’s unlikely to be repeated. Treat it. Conversation could do that, especially with a trained person. Not someone who will benefit financially from it. How many of these kids or their parents were given facts about how it may mentally affect them in the future. Examples, talking to the people with regret who had the process done. I would say none as it is illegal to try to put a no on the table.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 14 Apr 24 8.54am |
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Originally posted by cryrst
Treat it. Conversation could do that, especially with a trained person. Not someone who will benefit financially from it. How many of these kids or their parents were given facts about how it may mentally affect them in the future. Examples, talking to the people with regret who had the process done. I would say none as it is illegal to try to put a no on the table. We are talking about NHS provision and not private clinics, who are in any case also staffed by ethical professional clinicians, bound by the Hippocratic oath. There are no monetary considerations. Setting aside the Tavistock failure the consultations are extensive and lengthy, both with the patient and, when appropriate, parents. As I pointed out in a previous post it has been shown that less than 1% of those receiving treatment later express regret, far less than for other procedures. Which tends to suggest that the consultation and evaluation process is comprehensive and working.
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| georgenorman 14 Apr 24 9.24am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
We are talking about NHS provision and not private clinics, who are in any case also staffed by ethical professional clinicians, bound by the Hippocratic oath. There are no monetary considerations. Setting aside the Tavistock failure the consultations are extensive and lengthy, both with the patient and, when appropriate, parents. As I pointed out in a previous post it has been shown that less than 1% of those receiving treatment later express regret, far less than for other procedures. Which tends to suggest that the consultation and evaluation process is comprehensive and working. A former Tavistock Trust doctor has said 26% of his patients at the Tavistock and Portman regretted transitioning.
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eagleman13  On The Road To Hell & Alicante 14 Apr 24 9.24am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
We are talking about NHS provision and not private clinics, who are in any case also staffed by ethical professional clinicians, bound by the Hippocratic oath. There are no monetary considerations. Setting aside the Tavistock failure the consultations are extensive and lengthy, both with the patient and, when appropriate, parents. As I pointed out in a previous post it has been shown that less than 1% of those receiving treatment later express regret, far less than for other procedures. Which tends to suggest that the consultation and evaluation process is comprehensive and working. Remember the Wellington Clinic in St John's Wood NW8, the clinicians were also bound by the Hippocratic Oath, didn't stop them selling body parts(kidneys mostly) for monetary gain, did it.
I'm a blind man, i'm a blind man, now my room is cold, |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 14 Apr 24 12.08pm |
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Originally posted by georgenorman
A former Tavistock Trust doctor has said 26% of his patients at the Tavistock and Portman regretted transitioning. It is accepted that the performance of Tavistock was unacceptable. Which is why it was closed, lessons learned and best practice determined. The survey covered a much wider number than one UK clinic. With best practice established that’s what can be expected.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 14 Apr 24 12.19pm |
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Originally posted by eagleman13
Remember the Wellington Clinic in St John's Wood NW8, the clinicians were also bound by the Hippocratic Oath, didn't stop them selling body parts(kidneys mostly) for monetary gain, did it.
That involved one doctor who was struck off. Not the others who were not aware of any monetary involvement. He argued the patients involved were fully aware of the transactions so he had not broken the oath, so should not be struck off, but he lost. Hardly a representative example.
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| eagleman13 On The Road To Hell & Alicante 14 Apr 24 12.36pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
That involved one doctor who was struck off. Not the others who were not aware of any monetary involvement. He argued the patients involved were fully aware of the transactions so he had not broken the oath, so should not be struck off, but he lost. Hardly a representative example. So that's alright then. Still made you wrong with your post.
I'm a blind man, i'm a blind man, now my room is cold, |
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