You are here: Home > Message Board > Gold Talk > Margaret Thatcher
June 16 2024 3.51am

Margaret Thatcher

Previous Topic | Next Topic


Page 45 of 126 < 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 >

 

View crystal balls's Profile crystal balls Flag The Garden of Earthly Delights 09 Apr 13 11.38pm Send a Private Message to crystal balls Add crystal balls as a friend

Quote chris123 at 09 Apr 2013 10.56pm

Quote crystal balls at 09 Apr 2013 10.11pm

Quote chris123 at 09 Apr 2013 8.07pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 09 Apr 2013 6.26pm

Quote Willo at 09 Apr 2013 6.23pm

Quote

If you didnt know who she was but saw the list of 'anti's' getting their two penneth in over her corpse then you would have a natural instinct to be on her side purely because of the odious collection lining up

I ask - Where does it come from, this vitriloic loathing? Anti-Thatcherites tell you that it’s because she closed down the old industries. (She didn’t, of course, she simply stopped obliging everyone else to support them.)

Yet it must surely be patently obvious by now that nothing would have kept the dockyards and coalmines and steel mills open. A similar process of de-industrialisation has unfolded in every other Western European country, and the only parties that still talk of “reviving our manufacturing base” are Respect, the Scottish Socialists and the BNP !!!!

RIP

Willo


Its not so much the closing down, its the manner in which they were closed down, and the population, few of whom voted conservative, were just left to deal with the fact that employment was ripped out almost overnight, leaving hundreds chasing single jobs.



Uneconomic pits have routinely closed since the war, why should uneconomic mining be subsidised when no other industry was, and when from the 1960's we had the benefit ofNorth Sea oil and gas?


Simply untrue! Although some exploration of oil and gas fields went on from 60s, the Brent field in UK waters wasn't even discovered until 1971, and the first oil wasn't pumped (at a relatively modest level initially) from the Argyl field until 1975. Revenue from the taxation of oil commenced in a significant way from 1980 onwards.

The revenue from oil and the proceeds of privatisations could have been used b Hesletine to regenerate the country, but were instead used to fund income tax cuts for the higher paid instead.

Edited by Moose (09 Apr 2013 10.24pm)


West Sole came onstream in 1967.


The income to the exchequer from West Sole was insignificant, as was the amount of gas it produced. Oil and gas revenues from licensing and taxation only made any difference from 1980 onward.

 


I used to be immortal

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 09 Apr 13 11.51pm

Quote crystal balls at 09 Apr 2013 11.38pm

Quote chris123 at 09 Apr 2013 10.56pm

Quote crystal balls at 09 Apr 2013 10.11pm

Quote chris123 at 09 Apr 2013 8.07pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 09 Apr 2013 6.26pm

Quote Willo at 09 Apr 2013 6.23pm

Quote

If you didnt know who she was but saw the list of 'anti's' getting their two penneth in over her corpse then you would have a natural instinct to be on her side purely because of the odious collection lining up

I ask - Where does it come from, this vitriloic loathing? Anti-Thatcherites tell you that it’s because she closed down the old industries. (She didn’t, of course, she simply stopped obliging everyone else to support them.)

Yet it must surely be patently obvious by now that nothing would have kept the dockyards and coalmines and steel mills open. A similar process of de-industrialisation has unfolded in every other Western European country, and the only parties that still talk of “reviving our manufacturing base” are Respect, the Scottish Socialists and the BNP !!!!

RIP

Willo


Its not so much the closing down, its the manner in which they were closed down, and the population, few of whom voted conservative, were just left to deal with the fact that employment was ripped out almost overnight, leaving hundreds chasing single jobs.



Uneconomic pits have routinely closed since the war, why should uneconomic mining be subsidised when no other industry was, and when from the 1960's we had the benefit ofNorth Sea oil and gas?


Simply untrue! Although some exploration of oil and gas fields went on from 60s, the Brent field in UK waters wasn't even discovered until 1971, and the first oil wasn't pumped (at a relatively modest level initially) from the Argyl field until 1975. Revenue from the taxation of oil commenced in a significant way from 1980 onwards.

The revenue from oil and the proceeds of privatisations could have been used b Hesletine to regenerate the country, but were instead used to fund income tax cuts for the higher paid instead.

Edited by Moose (09 Apr 2013 10.24pm)


West Sole came onstream in 1967.


The income to the exchequer from West Sole was insignificant, as was the amount of gas it produced. Oil and gas revenues from licensing and taxation only made any difference from 1980 onward.


At it's peak in 1985, North sea oil revenue was £11 billion (3% of GDP)
Thatcher had quite a bit of income,so it's interesting that borrowing and the deficit went up during the Thatcher years, even though many state owned industries were sold off. B.T. (£8.9bn) British Steel (£2.5bn) British Gas (£5bn) BP (£7.25 bn)and British Rail (£1.96bn)

Edited by nickgusset (09 Apr 2013 11.51pm)

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Quote this post in a reply
View Johnny Eagles's Profile Johnny Eagles Flag berlin 10 Apr 13 12.07am Send a Private Message to Johnny Eagles Add Johnny Eagles as a friend

Quote nickgusset at 09 Apr 2013 10.39pm

I wish that when Thatcher shut the pits, she utilised the workforce and developed a manufacturing industry borne out of renewable energy, that way.

Says the guy who thinks we should "look beyond the news" and not be "spoonfed"!

Ridiculous. How realistic was that kind of policy in mid-80s Britain?

She arguably went too far in crushing the unions (though she certainly had popular support). She was certainly helped by that arrogant, bloody-minded idiot Scargill. But closing the mines to institute an enlightened, renewables-based industrial policy? That option was never on the table, mate, and it's anachronistic to pretend it was.

 


...we must expand...get more pupils...so that the knowledge will spread...

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View Bert the Head's Profile Bert the Head Flag Epsom 10 Apr 13 12.10am Send a Private Message to Bert the Head Add Bert the Head as a friend

Quote Penge Eagle at 09 Apr 2013 10.16pm

As Conor Burns said: "They hate her because she won."

Woe, destruction, ruin, and decay;
The worst is death, and death will have his day -

Yesterday she lost and some people actually did dance in the street. I can't imagine republicans dancing in the street when the Queen dies.

History will be more objective on what it takes to be a great British leader than the Daily Mail. I think the point is it’s more about what she did when she won. She was more than anything else a very divisive leader. William the Conqueror is more popular Up North and he actually burned and slaughtered them.

And besides it’s not even as if anything is over yet.
Hitler won as well if you call time in 1941. And so did Apartied in South African if you call time 1990. Maggie's close mate Pinochet won if you call time in 1987.

If you call time in 1983 she won outright in a way but not if you consider that most voters didn't vote for her even then or what the welfare state was like when she left office years later.

1997? A landslide for Labour against the nasty party? I doubt she would see that as a win. Is Cameron in a coalition a victory for Thatcher? Is the Financial crisis a victory for Thatcher?

"They hate her because she won." The point I'm making is: not entirely and not necessarily for that long.


Edited by Bert the Head (10 Apr 2013 12.19am)

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 10 Apr 13 12.15am

Quote Johnny Eagles at 10 Apr 2013 12.07am

Quote nickgusset at 09 Apr 2013 10.39pm

I wish that when Thatcher shut the pits, she utilised the workforce and developed a manufacturing industry borne out of renewable energy, that way.

Says the guy who thinks we should "look beyond the news" and not be "spoonfed"!

Ridiculous. How realistic was that kind of policy in mid-80s Britain?

She arguably went too far in crushing the unions (though she certainly had popular support). She was certainly helped by that arrogant, bloody-minded idiot Scargill. But closing the mines to institute an enlightened, renewables-based industrial policy? That option was never on the table, mate, and it's anachronistic to pretend it was.

Fair point, but she didn't try and replace it with anything did she?

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Quote this post in a reply
View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 10 Apr 13 12.19am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Quote Bert the Head at 10 Apr 2013 12.10am

Quote Penge Eagle at 09 Apr 2013 10.16pm

As Conor Burns said: "They hate her because she won."

Woe, destruction, ruin, and decay;
The worst is death, and death will have his day -

Yesterday she lost and some people actually did dance in the street. I can't imagine republicans dancing in the street when the Queen dies.

History will be more objective on what it takes to be a great British leader than the Daily Mail. I think the point is it’s more about what she did when she won. She was more than anything else a very divisive leader. William the Conqueror is more popular Up North and he actually burned and slaughtered them.

And besides it’s not even anything is over yet.
Hitler won as well if you call time in 1941. And so did Apartied in South African if you call time 1990. Maggie's close mate Pinochet won if you call time in 1987.

If you call time in 1983 she won outright in a way but not if you consider that most voters didn't vote for her even then or what the welfare state was like when she left office years later.

1997? A landslide for Labour against the nasty party? I doubt she would see that as a win. Is Cameron in a coalition a victory for Thatcher? Is the Financial crisis a victory for Thatcher?

"They hate her because she won." The point I'm making is not entirely and not necessarily for that long.


Can we file this under 'ramblings'?

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View Farawayeagle's Profile Farawayeagle Flag Sydney 10 Apr 13 1.05am Send a Private Message to Farawayeagle Add Farawayeagle as a friend

I think how you perceive the Thatcher years largely depends on
what your personal circumstances were if you lived through them.

Many commentators on here and elsewhere are basing their opinion on what they have read or been told. Naturally that means your opinion will be coloured by both your political viewpoint and the source of your reading.

I lived in England as a young buck starting out in life in the pre Thatcher years and during her first term in government. The country was going to hell in a handbasket in the years prior to Maggie taking over. I struggled to survive in a place wracked by strikes and a country that seemed to lack any purpose other than self
destruction. This is not from textbooks this is the life I lived.

Thatcher made a lot of tough decisions and I didn't agree with some of them. But if you were willing to embrace self reliance and look for new ways your life could be better. That's what I discovered.

When I moved to Japan in the mid 80's it gave me another perspective on where the UK had been -- working in an economy in which having a work ethic was a virtue. This was in stark contrast to the world that Scargill and his union cronies had imposed on pre Thatcher UK.

Yes there were losers during the Thatcher years but that was also true in the years before her Prime Ministership. However. when I returned to the UK from time to time over the 80's there was an improvement in the standard and quality of life. Something that perhaps it is easier to discern when you are not there.

You can have debates about things like selling council houses (my parents and my uncles bought theirs and it had a significant positive effect on their families) or the poll tax or other policies. You can carp about her style. But in the end I think more good than bad was done.

In the international arena without the pressure brought to bear on the USSR we would be living in a very different world.

She is one of the most significant World leaders in my lifetime. I salute her contribution.

Those who criticise her DECENCY as a human being are now out on the streets dancing on her grave. Pot, kettle, black comes to mind.


Edited by Farawayeagle (10 Apr 2013 1.07am)

Edited by Farawayeagle (10 Apr 2013 3.28am)

 


Founder Of The Crystal Palace Roller Coaster
Association

An Affiliate Of The Never A Dull Moment Club

R.I.P. DJ Hardline -- Gone Way Too Soon

GKAS Member 54

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View Jimenez's Profile Jimenez Flag SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 10 Apr 13 1.11am Send a Private Message to Jimenez Add Jimenez as a friend

Quote Farawayeagle at 10 Apr 2013 1.05am

I think how you perceive the Thatcher years largely depends on
what your personal circumstances were if you lived through them.

Many commentators on here and elsewhere are basing their opinion on what they have read or been told. Naturally that means your opinion will be coloured by both your political viewpoint and the source of your reading.

I lived in England as a young buck starting out in life in the pre Thatcher years and during her first term in government. The country was going to hell in a handbasket in the years prior to Maggie taking over. I struggled to survive in a place racked by strikes and a country that seemed to lack any purpose other than self
destruction. This is not from textbooks this is the life I lived.

Thatcher made a lot of tough decisions and I didn't agree with some of them. But if you were willing to embrace self reliance and look for new ways your life could be better. That's what I discovered.

When I moved to Japan in the mid 80's it gave me another perspective on where the UK had been -- working in an economy in which having a work ethic was a virtue. This was in stark contrast to the world that Scargill and his union cronies had imposed on pre Thatcher UK.

Yes there were losers during the Thatcher years but that was also true in the years before her Prime Ministership. However. when I returned to the UK from time to time over the 80's there was an improvement in the standard and quality of life. Something that perhaps it is easier to discern when you are not there.

You can have debates about things like selling council houses (my parents and my uncles bought theirs and it had a significant positive effect on their families) or the poll tax or other policies. You can carp about her style. But in the end I think more good than bad was done.

In the international arena without the pressure brought to bear on the USSR we would be living in a very different world.

She is one of the most significant World leaders in my lifetime. I salute her contribution.

Those who criticise her DECENCY as a human being are now out on the streets dancing on her grave. Pot, kettle, black comes to mind.


Edited by Farawayeagle (10 Apr 2013 1.07am)


Superb Post...

 


Pro USA & Israel

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
suicideatselhurst Flag crawley 10 Apr 13 1.12am

Quote Farawayeagle at 10 Apr 2013 1.05am

I think how you perceive the Thatcher years largely depends on
what your personal circumstances were if you lived through them.

Many commentators on here and elsewhere are basing their opinion on what they have read or been told. Naturally that means your opinion will be coloured by both your political viewpoint and the source of your reading.

I lived in England as a young buck starting out in life in the pre Thatcher years and during her first term in government. The country was going to hell in a handbasket in the years prior to Maggie taking over. I struggled to survive in a place racked by strikes and a country that seemed to lack any purpose other than self
destruction. This is not from textbooks this is the life I lived.

Thatcher made a lot of tough decisions and I didn't agree with some of them. But if you were willing to embrace self reliance and look for new ways your life could be better. That's what I discovered.

When I moved to Japan in the mid 80's it gave me another perspective on where the UK had been -- working in an economy in which having a work ethic was a virtue. This was in stark contrast to the world that Scargill and his union cronies had imposed on pre Thatcher UK.

Yes there were losers during the Thatcher years but that was also true in the years before her Prime Ministership. However. when I returned to the UK from time to time over the 80's there was an improvement in the standard and quality of life. Something that perhaps it is easier to discern when you are not there.

You can have debates about things like selling council houses (my parents and my uncles bought theirs and it had a significant positive effect on their families) or the poll tax or other policies. You can carp about her style. But in the end I think more good than bad was done.

In the international arena without the pressure brought to bear on the USSR we would be living in a very different world.

She is one of the most significant World leaders in my lifetime. I salute her contribution.

Those who criticise her DECENCY as a human being are now out on the streets dancing on her grave. Pot, kettle, black comes to mind.


Edited by Farawayeagle (10 Apr 2013 1.07am)


Spot on mate.......and judging by their age most of them were not around at the height of her premiership

 


Theres someone in my head ... But its not me

X/Box game Tag bazcpfc1961, clan (HMS)

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Quote this post in a reply
nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 10 Apr 13 1.28am

I lived in Falmouth during the first years of the Thatch reign. My dad had used his redundancy money from the Evening news to open a shop down there. All was going well until the docks and shipyard closed, then there was just no money in the town. I can remember school-friends who would come round to ours for tea as their families couldn't afford to feed them. The same friends went without hot water or heating to save money. What support was there for them? None- just Tebbit telling their parents to get on their bikes. The West country didn't do well under Thatcher and we moved away after 4 or 5 years.

Edited by nickgusset (10 Apr 2013 1.28am)

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Quote this post in a reply
View Farawayeagle's Profile Farawayeagle Flag Sydney 10 Apr 13 1.41am Send a Private Message to Farawayeagle Add Farawayeagle as a friend

Quote nickgusset at 10 Apr 2013 1.28am

I lived in Falmouth during the first years of the Thatch reign. My dad had used his redundancy money from the Evening news to open a shop down there. All was going well until the docks and shipyard closed, then there was just no money in the town. I can remember school-friends who would come round to ours for tea as their families couldn't afford to feed them. The same friends went without hot water or heating to save money. What support was there for them? None- just Tebbit telling their parents to get on their bikes. The West country didn't do well under Thatcher and we moved away after 4 or 5 years.

Edited by nickgusset (10 Apr 2013 1.28am)

As I said it depends on your lived experience. Leaving my own situation aside I know of people in Co., Antrim in Northern Ireland
Who had the opposite experience of the your dad.

 


Founder Of The Crystal Palace Roller Coaster
Association

An Affiliate Of The Never A Dull Moment Club

R.I.P. DJ Hardline -- Gone Way Too Soon

GKAS Member 54

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
suicideatselhurst Flag crawley 10 Apr 13 1.43am

Quote nickgusset at 10 Apr 2013 1.28am

I lived in Falmouth during the first years of the Thatch reign. My dad had used his redundancy money from the Evening news to open a shop down there. All was going well until the docks and shipyard closed, then there was just no money in the town. I can remember school-friends who would come round to ours for tea as their families couldn't afford to feed them. The same friends went without hot water or heating to save money. What support was there for them? None- just Tebbit telling their parents to get on their bikes. The West country didn't do well under Thatcher and we moved away after 4 or 5 years.

Edited by nickgusset (10 Apr 2013 1.28am)


Bloody Hell Nick....do you mean The London Evening News, i got redundant from them as well about 1979/80

 


Theres someone in my head ... But its not me

X/Box game Tag bazcpfc1961, clan (HMS)

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Quote this post in a reply

 

Page 45 of 126 < 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 >

Previous Topic | Next Topic

You are here: Home > Message Board > Gold Talk > Margaret Thatcher