Have you ever asked yourself why you feel it necessary to defend them?
Had it occurred to you that the criticism is directed toward what some Muslims have done and the unacceptable nature of some Islamic attitudes rather than Muslims in general.
Or would you rather be an apologist for these things and claim that people are 'Islamophobic' just to stifle debate?

Yesterday a person in my extended family was mugged by a Black person in Croydon. Do I blame all Black people?
No
Are street muggings in Croydon almost always committed by Black people? Yep.
I know you would rather ignore that fact and come up with some old crap about poverty or upbringing and say nothing about personal responsibility or predisposition.

Sorry for the late reply I've been ill.

I didn't take it that personally I suppose I have a constant bee in my bonnet over the dynamics on the left's obsessive defence of Islam....Not forgetting that you have a perfect right to type that and this is just the cut and thrust of debate.

I think we are all sensitive nowadays because in my view identity politics is the inevitable consequence of demographic change and this is the path we are on. You feel you're defending a principle whereas I think that principle is in a sense from an era that's already past...I see the principle in it though. Still, as time goes on I think you'll see there's something in what I say.

Regardless when it comes to Khan this wasn't about Islam but you're right we criticise religion here. I'm amongst the harshest critic of Islam both its extreme but also to a lesser extent the expediency found in its mainstream.....But when it comes to secular Muslims my concern isn't really there. (though I know Khan makes advantage of of his demographic but he wouldn't be a politician if he didn't do that)

Edited by Stirlingsays (14 Nov 2018 10.57am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

I don't defend them

I merely question the objectivity of people that appear highly single-minded in their dislike of all things Muslim.

You make an important point. There isn't a race of Muslims it's an religion that promotes certain ideas. Amongst the more pious or to be fair most literal of the religion those ideas bring it into conflict with western ones....in my view.

This isn't anywhere near as true with Hinduism or Sikhism. Both religions that have taken root here but like Judaism don't clash with western values..with exceptions (arranged marriage perhaps).

Personally I'm all about ensuring that England still has a high majority within it who consider themselves English in a hundred years. Otherwise I don't see it remaining England....and the English have a right to their own country. So like the Japanese and other countries I agree with limiting the population of groups that aren't English or from home countries.

That said, I think I'm on the losing side.

But this desire is a very motivating factor amongst many...for example pakistan wouldn't exist without this similar tribal motivation......As we know from other demographics, people vote or think one way in their own countries and vote and think another elsewhere.

Edited by Stirlingsays (14 Nov 2018 11.13am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

So what do you mean by all things Muslim?

You criticise others for having a simple minded attitude to the subject and then make blanket statements.
The fact is that from a Western secular perspective, there is much to criticise about Islamic culture.

In any similar situation, you will always have those that are active and those that would prefer it all to just go away while they live their lives.

Sadiq Khan criticised over 60 per cent rise in staff costs at City Hall since taking office [Link]

I would have loved to have used the water cannons I would have added some soap as some of the demonstrators clearly need a bath.

I'm afraid that Boris has the negotiating skills of Theresa May. The Germans put a deadline on the sale and he blinked. As we couldn't give them away I don't think there were other buyers queuing up he should have stood firm and got approval first to use them.

It was always a gamble because water cannon has never been used on the UK mainland and in London's narrow streets could cause a lot of damage. That said I think the idiots who closed 5 bridges should have had a dose or as Napoleon said "a whiff of grapeshot".

One more point

Ooh, power struggles within the Conservative Party. That's a new one.

And before you start, same thing inside the Labour Party.

The damaging effects of politics on the real needs of people. Someone give me the correct answer, I am blowed if I know. Maybe go back to stronger morals, perhaps a return to religious fundamentalism...

For starters, people need to be better informed because the media is not doing its job properly. The media focuses too much on the personalities and not policies. It's a bug-bear of mine as you know.

If we are all better informed, then people need to get off their arses, campaign and vote out the arseholes. People having a better understanding of Judeo-Christian values would also help!

Edited by Penge Eagle (19 Nov 2018 2.40pm)