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Spiderman Horsham 12 Jan 23 5.55pm | |
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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
Yes, they are. The reality is, if Brexit had gone even 20% as well as the campaign promised, you wouldn't be remotely bothered what was being said on the BBS - but it hasn't, so there's a nagging desire to keep trying to convince yourself and others that it's going fine and exactly as expected all along.
Take any political topic which splits opinion in a significant way... topics like abortion, hunting, fracking etc. People don't just campaign on it once, and if unsuccessful, decide 'ah well, I'll have to accept that and move on' It's just yet another nonsense point that leavers have been told to parrot.
My point about bbs was that, without knowing anything about a poster, if you voted leave you area racist bigot, , they would have those views whatever. Does it bother me? No, I am happy with who I am. Edited by Spiderman (12 Jan 2023 6.00pm) Edited by Spiderman (12 Jan 2023 6.01pm)
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cryrst The garden of England 12 Jan 23 6.44pm | |
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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
I'm sure you've studied it at great depth. Google does hold all you need. Maybe you should do it yourself. I have so I do know it started with black men putting black men , women and children into slavery. Whites just happened to realise the benefits. ( for want of a better description of the times).
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Stirlingsays 12 Jan 23 6.54pm | |
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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
Yes, they are. The reality is, if Brexit had gone even 20% as well as the campaign promised, you wouldn't be remotely bothered what was being said on the BBS - but it hasn't, so there's a nagging desire to keep trying to convince yourself and others that it's going fine and exactly as expected all along.
Take any political topic which splits opinion in a significant way... topics like abortion, hunting, fracking etc. People don't just campaign on it once, and if unsuccessful, decide 'ah well, I'll have to accept that and move on' It's just yet another nonsense point that leavers have been told to parrot. Edited by EverybodyDannsNow (12 Jan 2023 5.47pm) EU sceptics were literally being told this for decades. I remember being told on Hol, long before Brexit was a thing, that people like me were 'foaming at the month and swivel eyed' over the EU.....Oh and by the way I'm very happy about Brexit and not being a part of that insane globalist project.....though in reality the leaders have just completely ignored large aspects of Brexit and just carried on. The point you made here was literally the same point leavers were making from the day Britain joined the EU......and what you are complaining about is literally what we were faced with. I bet you never gave a fig about it when the shoe was on the other foot. Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Jan 2023 7.15pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Stirlingsays 12 Jan 23 7.04pm | |
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Originally posted by Spiderman
My point about bbs was that, without knowing anything about a poster, if you voted leave you area racist bigot, , they would have those views whatever. Does it bother me? No, I am happy with who I am. Edited by Spiderman (12 Jan 2023 6.00pm) Edited by Spiderman (12 Jan 2023 6.01pm) They don't care. There will always be a percent of the left, especially the globalist egalitarian demographic who see you in those terms. Partly because that tactic has been so successful for them in intimidating opposition and partly because they believe it. It's a different language. In some senses both camps are right in what they think of the other. For example, you could call them commies and most of them would disagree with you. But it would be true in extent that compared to us, they believe in some of the same aspects of communism for us to say the differences are moot (even though in reality it's a weird middle class neo communism (where they never actually live as communists...fiscal capitalism, cultural Marxism)). In the same way, how they think of race and culture means that compared to them we are racist and bigots. I say whatever, it doesn't really matter what they think. The right really needs to stop worrying about what the left think....It's partly what has led to this mess in the first place. Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Jan 2023 7.12pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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MrWhyNot 12 Jan 23 7.10pm | |
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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
The idea that talking about a massive political event a few years later means you somehow haven't 'accepted' it is just weird Take any political topic which splits opinion in a significant way... topics like abortion, hunting, fracking etc. People don't just campaign on it once, and if unsuccessful, decide 'ah well, I'll have to accept that and move on' It's just yet another nonsense point that leavers have been told to parrot.
Some truth to that. Farage throught Brexit had lost the vote initially, and his very first statement was that they would fight on, build more support and so on. Brexit objectively has not gone well so far, or rather aspects of it that could've haven't on account that the Government policy is no less gungho on than the EU; with immigration for instance. I can see how it could be viewed as layers to peel away though, in that at least government now has no excuses and can't say 'our hands are tied' by others. In all likelihood a majority of people currently support rejoining, but that could change over time. It makes sense that it's still an issue though, it possibly always will be. If we do rejoin I can't see it happening for say 10 years+ and that will depend on how Brexit pans out over that period, which is fair enough.
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Badger11 Beckenham 12 Jan 23 8.12pm | |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
Drake was appalling but its over 500 years ago. He was a slaver and pirate, the accolades to his heroics are balanced by his motives namely to pillage and plunder anything particularly Spanish that came in his way. The 'circumnavigation' if it was actually that, was a piracy campaign. The Spanish Armada is a huge propaganda exercise, the subsequent English Armada led by Drake was routed and Philip of Spain resumed his control of the seas. It's remarkable that the English Armada does not appear anywhere, certainly not in any educational curriculum I only heard of it a couple of years ago. I remember as a child standing proudly in front of Drake's statue with my Grandad on Plymouth Hoe. I do not want false history, I prefer the truth about Drake and of course what he did, particularly as a slaver, is abhorrent but we have to consider the context of the times. Not sure comparing the Spanish and English Armadas is valid.
Spain was the naval super power of the day whilst England was a minnow and had only just started building a navy under Henry V111. The defeat of the armada ensured our country's independence so is rightly talked up in the history books. The victory was largely down to bad weather and fire ships, never the less the goal of the English fleet was to stop the Spanish talking control of the channel so the invasion barges from Holland could safely cross and this they achieved. Spain did not make another serious attempt at invasion so I don't agree it was all propaganda. Yes of course Elizabeth lorded her success what country doesn't. The English Armada was not an invasion but a raid to ensure that the Spanish did not try again and yes it failed. However in the scheme of things it is not historically significant which is why it probably isn't mentioned that much except by the Spanish. If the raid has succeeded it is possible that England would have ruled the waves earlier but I doubt that Spain was still too rich and too strong it would take England another 100 years to gain the upper hand.
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steeleye20 Croydon 12 Jan 23 9.25pm | |
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The English Armada was the 'greatest naval disaster in British History'. Yet you will scarcely find any mention of it. Here is a link, well worth a read.
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Badger11 Beckenham 12 Jan 23 9.58pm | |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
The English Armada was the 'greatest naval disaster in British History'. Yet you will scarcely find any mention of it. Here is a link, well worth a read. Perhaps, but with the benefit of hindsight it didn't matter that much. There was no regime change or major political upheaval in England due to its failure. The English and Spanish continued to have naval battles and proxy wars for the next 200 years until we finally overpowered them. I agree it shouldn't be ignored but clearly the impact of the failure of Spain to invade and conquer England was far more important.
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georgenorman 12 Jan 23 10.06pm | |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
The English Armada was the 'greatest naval disaster in British History'. Yet you will scarcely find any mention of it. Here is a link, well worth a read. All you do is celebrate anything that you think denigrates your own country, both in the past and present. Edited by georgenorman (12 Jan 2023 10.07pm)
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Mapletree Croydon 12 Jan 23 10.45pm | |
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Originally posted by Badger11
Perhaps, but with the benefit of hindsight it didn't matter that much. There was no regime change or major political upheaval in England due to its failure. The English and Spanish continued to have naval battles and proxy wars for the next 200 years until we finally overpowered them. I agree it shouldn't be ignored but clearly the impact of the failure of Spain to invade and conquer England was far more important.
It is also notable what happened to the British sailors during and after the engagement. Left to rot on ships riven with disease. Eventually sent home, mostly sick, with no pay. That is a major part of the real history. Airbrushed out as an inconvenient truth.
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Mapletree Croydon 12 Jan 23 10.48pm | |
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Originally posted by JRW2
I've seen a good few irrelevant posts on here over the years but that beats them all. What on earth has Drake being a slave trader got to do with Orwell's assertion that obliterating people's understanding of their history is "the most effective way to destroy" them? Because we lose free will when information is obscured. Do keep up.
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Mapletree Croydon 12 Jan 23 10.49pm | |
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Originally posted by Spiderman
So should Drake be eradicated from history then? And his other achievements ignored and not praised? Edited by Spiderman (12 Jan 2023 4.45pm) Edited by Spiderman (12 Jan 2023 4.47pm) Stupid post. Just tell the story as objectively as possible. Including Elizabeth’s dodgy deals with Drake. Looks like he took after his father. Probably learned at his knee.
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