Gary Lineker backs Brexit referendum campaign

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Gary Lineker backs Brexit referendum campaign

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palace777 belfast 27 Jul 18 8.59am
Originally posted by europalace "Former England footballer Gary Lineker has backed the campaign for another EU referendum, saying Brexit feels like it is "going very wrong indeed" " [Link] Who gives a sh*t what he thinks!
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palace777

belfast 27 Jul 18 8.59am

Originally posted by europalace

"Former England footballer Gary Lineker has backed the campaign for another EU referendum, saying Brexit feels like it is "going very wrong indeed" "

[Link]

Who gives a sh*t what he thinks!

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silvertop Portishead 27 Jul 18 12.42pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger You assume that most people understand the details, which they don't. You also assume that each side will be honest, which they won't. The only difference is that we are now in the messy part of the process which has been made more difficult by Remainers trying to scupper it and those knobs in Europe. All the more reason to ignore their crap and push on. You mean the other side to the equation who were always going to be on the other side of the equation? I have gone on record as saying that I voted Remain but accept the result unless clear evidence of electoral irregularity surfaces that would have altered the result to the extent that remain would have won. That said, that this has gone messy can be no surprise given about 80% of MPs voted Remain; the result was incredibly close; there are still unanswered questions about foreign interference; and the Leave vote was substantively driven by the 2015 refugee crisis which has hugely abated (although the political repercussions rumble on). There is also the small fact that Remainers are not convinced by Brexiteers airily stating that the train crash we appear to be rocketing into should be considered an "opportunity". I hope they're wrong.
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silvertop

Portishead 27 Jul 18 12.42pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

You assume that most people understand the details, which they don't.
You also assume that each side will be honest, which they won't.
The only difference is that we are now in the messy part of the process which has been made more difficult by Remainers trying to scupper it and those knobs in Europe.
All the more reason to ignore their crap and push on.

You mean the other side to the equation who were always going to be on the other side of the equation?

I have gone on record as saying that I voted Remain but accept the result unless clear evidence of electoral irregularity surfaces that would have altered the result to the extent that remain would have won.

That said, that this has gone messy can be no surprise given about 80% of MPs voted Remain; the result was incredibly close; there are still unanswered questions about foreign interference; and the Leave vote was substantively driven by the 2015 refugee crisis which has hugely abated (although the political repercussions rumble on).

There is also the small fact that Remainers are not convinced by Brexiteers airily stating that the train crash we appear to be rocketing into should be considered an "opportunity". I hope they're wrong.

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becky over the moon 27 Jul 18 1.07pm
Originally posted by silvertop You mean the other side to the equation who were always going to be on the other side of the equation? I have gone on record as saying that I voted Remain but accept the result unless clear evidence of electoral irregularity surfaces that would have altered the result to the extent that remain would have won. That said, that this has gone messy can be no surprise given about 80% of MPs voted Remain; the result was incredibly close; there are still unanswered questions about foreign interference; and the Leave vote was substantively driven by the 2015 refugee crisis which has hugely abated (although the political repercussions rumble on). There is also the small fact that Remainers are not convinced by Brexiteers airily stating that the train crash we appear to be rocketing into should be considered an "opportunity". I hope they're wrong. I think people are still aware of it given that after 5 years (2020), all the immigrants to Europe, especially the large numbers to Germany, will be eligible for EU passports and then have free movement across the nations..... we will leave in 2019. Edited by becky (27 Jul 2018 1.07pm) A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers
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becky

over the moon 27 Jul 18 1.07pm

Originally posted by silvertop

You mean the other side to the equation who were always going to be on the other side of the equation?

That said, that this has gone messy can be no surprise given about 80% of MPs voted Remain; the result was incredibly close; there are still unanswered questions about foreign interference; and the Leave vote was substantively driven by the 2015 refugee crisis which has hugely abated (although the political repercussions rumble on).

I think people are still aware of it given that after 5 years (2020), all the immigrants to Europe, especially the large numbers to Germany, will be eligible for EU passports and then have free movement across the nations..... we will leave in 2019.

Edited by becky (27 Jul 2018 1.07pm)

A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers

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steeleye20 Croydon 27 Jul 18 1.19pm
Why would any self-respecting EU passport-holder want to come and live in a third world banana republic like the UK.
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steeleye20

Croydon 27 Jul 18 1.19pm

Why would any self-respecting EU passport-holder want to come and live in a third world banana republic like the UK.

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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 27 Jul 18 1.40pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 Why would any self-respecting EU passport-holder want to come and live in a third world banana republic like the UK. For the same reasons several million have already come, no doubt. Who serves you in your local shop or garage? If you tell me it's an English person I will not believe it. Red and Blue Army!
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ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 27 Jul 18 1.40pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

Why would any self-respecting EU passport-holder want to come and live in a third world banana republic like the UK.

For the same reasons several million have already come, no doubt. Who serves you in your local shop or garage? If you tell me it's an English person I will not believe it.

Red and Blue Army!

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davenotamonkey 27 Jul 18 1.52pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger A referendum is a one off event whereas governments have a maximum term. The statement has no relevance. Moreover, by direct analogy, the "losers" in this instance are attempting to block the formation of government following the results of the General Election. The result of the referendum has not yet been implemented, and they have been trying to derail it, dilute it, or reverse it since 24th June 2016. Scum, simply.
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davenotamonkey

27 Jul 18 1.52pm

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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

A referendum is a one off event whereas governments have a maximum term.
The statement has no relevance.

Moreover, by direct analogy, the "losers" in this instance are attempting to block the formation of government following the results of the General Election.

The result of the referendum has not yet been implemented, and they have been trying to derail it, dilute it, or reverse it since 24th June 2016.

Scum, simply.

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the_mcanuff_stuff Caterham 27 Jul 18 2.07pm
Originally posted by Spiderman I think people voted for Brexit ie BREXIT. I knew exactly what I was voting for and would do the same again. How was the Irish border controlled before EU membership? This is a red herring that can be easily overcome if there was a political will rather than a will to stop a democratic decision The Irish border pre-membership can't be re-implemented under the good Friday agreement (which was signed when both the UK and ROI were EU members). The good Friday agreement would have to be ripped up to establish a hard border between NI and ROI, or another agreement reached. It is not a red herring at all, it's a real headache for the government, with (possible) consequences of the troubles in Ireland flaring up again.
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the_mcanuff_stuff

Caterham 27 Jul 18 2.07pm

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Originally posted by Spiderman

I think people voted for Brexit ie BREXIT. I knew exactly what I was voting for and would do the same again. How was the Irish border controlled before EU membership? This is a red herring that can be easily overcome if there was a political will rather than a will to stop a democratic decision

The Irish border pre-membership can't be re-implemented under the good Friday agreement (which was signed when both the UK and ROI were EU members). The good Friday agreement would have to be ripped up to establish a hard border between NI and ROI, or another agreement reached. It is not a red herring at all, it's a real headache for the government, with (possible) consequences of the troubles in Ireland flaring up again.

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EverybodyDannsNow SE19 27 Jul 18 2.20pm
Originally posted by Spiderman It's called a democratic vote...derr. How do you know Wilson would not have continued? I wonder what the first vote would have been if they knew what we know now. Shame you dont appear to support a democratic vote, are you Linekar in disguise? Please explain what you would say if a 2nd referendum supported leave, would you carry on until you got your way? This is not my spoilt pride but I am embarrassed that this country can no longer be called a democratic society Playing devils advocate; if the reason Brexiters are so opposed to a second referendum is because they fear the result would be different, surely by definition this is opposing democracy? If this was really about the democratic will of the people being performed, there should never really be any objection to a referendum, as this would capture the most recent democratic will of the people.. I genuinely don't know the answer, but I find the idea that it is anti-democracatic to put something to a vote quite difficult to accept.
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EverybodyDannsNow

SE19 27 Jul 18 2.20pm

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Originally posted by Spiderman

It's called a democratic vote...derr. How do you know Wilson would not have continued?
I wonder what the first vote would have been if they knew what we know now.
Shame you dont appear to support a democratic vote, are you Linekar in disguise? Please explain what you would say if a 2nd referendum supported leave, would you carry on until you got your way? This is not my spoilt pride but I am embarrassed that this country can no longer be called a democratic society

Playing devils advocate; if the reason Brexiters are so opposed to a second referendum is because they fear the result would be different, surely by definition this is opposing democracy?

I genuinely don't know the answer, but I find the idea that it is anti-democracatic to put something to a vote quite difficult to accept.

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Spiderman Horsham 27 Jul 18 2.30pm
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow Playing devils advocate; if the reason Brexiters are so opposed to a second referendum is because they fear the result would be different, surely by definition this is opposing democracy? If this was really about the democratic will of the people being performed, there should never really be any objection to a referendum, as this would capture the most recent democratic will of the people.. I genuinely don't know the answer, but I find the idea that it is anti-democracatic to put something to a vote quite difficult to accept. Not quite sure of the logic here, surely the democratic will of the people was to leave and it was always going to take 2 years. With regard to any objection to a referendum, I assume you mean a 2nd one...the objection being the 1st one showed the democratic will of the people was to leave, My point was if the result of the referendum is not carried out, that is undemocratic.
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Spiderman

Horsham 27 Jul 18 2.30pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

Playing devils advocate; if the reason Brexiters are so opposed to a second referendum is because they fear the result would be different, surely by definition this is opposing democracy?

If this was really about the democratic will of the people being performed, there should never really be any objection to a referendum, as this would capture the most recent democratic will of the people..

I genuinely don't know the answer, but I find the idea that it is anti-democracatic to put something to a vote quite difficult to accept.

Not quite sure of the logic here, surely the democratic will of the people was to leave and it was always going to take 2 years. With regard to any objection to a referendum, I assume you mean a 2nd one...the objection being the 1st one showed the democratic will of the people was to leave, My point was if the result of the referendum is not carried out, that is undemocratic.

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Hrolf The Ganger 27 Jul 18 2.32pm
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow Playing devils advocate; if the reason Brexiters are so opposed to a second referendum is because they fear the result would be different, surely by definition this is opposing democracy? If this was really about the democratic will of the people being performed, there should never really be any objection to a referendum, as this would capture the most recent democratic will of the people.. I genuinely don't know the answer, but I find the idea that it is anti-democracatic to put something to a vote quite difficult to accept. There was no mention of a second referendum until Remain lost. Do you think people would be clamoring for a second vote if Remain had won? If so, why?
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Hrolf The Ganger

27 Jul 18 2.32pm

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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

Playing devils advocate; if the reason Brexiters are so opposed to a second referendum is because they fear the result would be different, surely by definition this is opposing democracy?

I genuinely don't know the answer, but I find the idea that it is anti-democracatic to put something to a vote quite difficult to accept.

There was no mention of a second referendum until Remain lost.
Do you think people would be clamoring for a second vote if Remain had won? If so, why?

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davenotamonkey 27 Jul 18 2.35pm
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow Playing devils advocate; if the reason Brexiters are so opposed to a second referendum is because they fear the result would be different, surely by definition this is opposing democracy? If this was really about the democratic will of the people being performed, there should never really be any objection to a referendum, as this would capture the most recent democratic will of the people.. I genuinely don't know the answer, but I find the idea that it is anti-democracatic to put something to a vote quite difficult to accept. Here. I would urge everyone to read this: [Link]
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davenotamonkey

27 Jul 18 2.35pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

Playing devils advocate; if the reason Brexiters are so opposed to a second referendum is because they fear the result would be different, surely by definition this is opposing democracy?

I genuinely don't know the answer, but I find the idea that it is anti-democracatic to put something to a vote quite difficult to accept.

Here. I would urge everyone to read this:

[Link]

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steeleye20 Croydon 27 Jul 18 2.36pm
Originally posted by Spiderman Not quite sure of the logic here, surely the democratic will of the people was to leave and it was always going to take 2 years. With regard to any objection to a referendum, I assume you mean a 2nd one...the objection being the 1st one showed the democratic will of the people was to leave, My point was if the result of the referendum is not carried out, that is undemocratic. It is not undemocratic as the referendum's terms were that it is advisory, not binding upon the government. The government's duty is to govern not hold referendums.
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steeleye20

Croydon 27 Jul 18 2.36pm

Originally posted by Spiderman

It is not undemocratic as the referendum's terms were that it is advisory, not binding upon the government.

The government's duty is to govern not hold referendums.

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