The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
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 Badger11  Beckenham 09 Jan 19 6.07pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
Citizens Assemblies to replace deadlocked parliaments? Sounds good why don't we try it. The USA, the UK and France are struggling with outdated systems that distance themselves with their populations. Essentially they rule on the behalf of their sponsors. Mostly they are not democratic either. If we had not had our PM's from Eden to May we would only have been a better country IMO. I believe the Russians tried this they called them Soviets. I have been critical of Brexit politicians for their lack of vision post Brexit. Handing power back to the people would be a start. In practical terms that means giving most of the EU powers to the National Assemblies along with the money that came from the EU. Power should be devolved but I doubt it will happen as we have one of the more centralised power structures in Western Democracy.
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| chris123 hove actually 09 Jan 19 6.08pm |
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Originally posted by steve1984
amendments are the law - leaving is just noise? No the amendment is procedural - highly unusual in this case.
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| Stirlingsays 09 Jan 19 6.09pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
Citizens Assemblies to replace deadlocked parliaments? Sounds good why don't we try it. The USA, the UK and France are struggling with outdated systems that distance themselves with their populations. Essentially they rule on the behalf of their sponsors. Mostly they are not democratic either. If we had not had our PM's from Eden to May we would only have been a better country IMO. Didn't the Soviets and later Gaddafi come up with the idea of Citizens Assemblies? Edited by Stirlingsays (09 Jan 2019 6.10pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| chris123 hove actually 09 Jan 19 6.11pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Parliament should be following the will of the people - they have their mandate, enshrined in law.
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| steve1984 09 Jan 19 6.26pm | |
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Originally posted by chris123
Parliament should be following the will of the people - they have their mandate, enshrined in law. Which law? Cameron promised to honour the result but Parliament is under no legal obligation to do so. Morally perhaps, politically maybe but legally not at all.
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| Hrolf The Ganger 09 Jan 19 6.38pm |
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Originally posted by steve1984
Which law? Cameron promised to honour the result but Parliament is under no legal obligation to do so. Morally perhaps, politically maybe but legally not at all. Is that going to be one of the many excuses for not leaving? If we don't leave it will be because the whole process has been engineered to fail. If anyone claims otherwise, they will be less convincing than a flat Earther Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (09 Jan 2019 6.39pm)
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| chris123 hove actually 09 Jan 19 6.56pm |
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Originally posted by steve1984
Which law? Cameron promised to honour the result but Parliament is under no legal obligation to do so. Morally perhaps, politically maybe but legally not at all. European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018.
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| Matov 09 Jan 19 7.10pm |
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Originally posted by chris123
No the amendment is procedural - highly unusual in this case. What we saw in Parliament today was beyond 'highly unusual'. It was a blatant act of political bias. In a way, I am rather glad that it happened because now there can be no more pretence about what Parliament is attempting to do in terms of scuppering the result on June 23rd. A majority of MP's want to ignore what 17 million people voted in favour of on June 23rd. There can be no more pretence or hiding behind the usual BS now. Makes what could follow that much easier because Parliament has shown the contempt with which it holds the 17 millions. As far as I am concerned, if our departure on March 29th is scuppered because of the antics of MP's then effectively our democracy dies that day. And then things fall apart. There will simply be no point, given how our system of Governance is acting despite having received a clear and definite instruction from the populace in terms of a majorities desire for us to exit the EU, in ever trusting our voting system again. What follows, I have not got a clue but I will struggle to hold any other position other a belief that my vote is no longer considered the equal of those who voted Remain. Essentially I will have to consider that Parliament considers my opinion, expressed in a perfectly legitimate exercise in democracy, is worth nothing at all. Effectively I become a second class citizen. Interesting times.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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| Midlands Eagle 09 Jan 19 7.21pm |
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Originally posted by steve1984
If we don't exit as promised I will never vote Conservative again and can see UKIP making a grand comeback
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| Matov 09 Jan 19 7.28pm |
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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
If we don't exit as promised I will never vote Conservative again and can see UKIP making a grand comeback But why would we bother ever voting again for anybody? If they stop us leaving the EU despite it being the single biggest vote for anything ever then they will certainly not allow any new force in British politics to come to the fore. That is an absolute nailed on certainty. The vote on June 23rd was an absolute exercise in perfect democracy. A simple question and every vote equally weighted. If the b******s can over-ride that then we are f***ed. Absolutely. Democracy is dead in the water. This is what people need to start getting their heads around.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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Pussay Patrol  09 Jan 19 7.31pm |
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Originally posted by the silurian
Bulls*** from you again, nothing to do with austerity, everything to do with not wanting to work in a proper job.....we were poor years ago, didnt go around stabbing people though! As someone said, much to do with imported scum, often from Eastern Europe You say bull but Police numbers have been cut by 22,000 since 2009 that's a fact Nothing you said is based on fact
Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah |
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| steve1984 09 Jan 19 7.33pm | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Is that going to be one of the many excuses for not leaving? If we don't leave it will be because the whole process has been engineered to fail. The process was never designed to "succeed". You weren't supposed to win. You were supposed to vote remain so that Cameron could tell all the euroscpetic tory MPs who were threatening to join Farage to shut the f*** up 'cos "the people" have spoken. That's why he promised to respect the result without making it a legal obligation. That's why there was no planning for a leave win. And that's why there's no obligation on the part of our sovereign parliament to make it happen. We've all been screwed by the sodding tories. (and no I'm not suggesting that we should all go out and vote for that arsehole Corbyn).
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