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View susmik's Profile susmik Flag PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 17 Oct 17 2.19pm Send a Private Message to susmik Add susmik as a friend

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

You're like those brummies off harry enfield and chums. Oi sport, I think you'll find I'm considerably richer than yaaouu. Look at my woooife.

You have not taken your medication today have you??
I suggest you go and lie down pal!

 


Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.

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View susmik's Profile susmik Flag PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 17 Oct 17 2.28pm Send a Private Message to susmik Add susmik as a friend

Originally posted by Kermit8

We will be re-joining. Just a question of in ten years or maybe fifteen? Your core support will have died by then.

To paraphrase Attlee - Referendum are not about democracy but about demagogues.

Surely that is what Corbyn did at the last election to gain all the young students votes.....I could use the word "Flannel" instead of demagogue to be honest.

 


Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 17 Oct 17 2.37pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

A war between fascists and communists? The soviets backed the communists and Hitler and Mussolini backed the fascists.

I would have stayed out of it and moved. I'm a democrat.

That said, I've read that most democrats who were there fought on the communists side....Orwell did...though he quickly became disillusioned with the communists...So if I were forced to pick a side I would have fought for them rather than Franco.


Edited by Stirlingsays (17 Oct 2017 1.36pm)

Its reductive of the Spanish civil war to reduce it down to Fascists vs Communists.

The democratically elected government (left learning NOT communist) were subject to a military coup, supported by conservative elements of Spanish society, which included the two Spanish fascist groups.

The republicans ranged from pro-capitalist liberals, members of the middle classes, workers through to ardent Anarchists and Communists.

Early on the roles of the Fascists and Communists were fairly limited - Germany, Italy, Mexico and the Soviet were keen to do business with the Nationalists and Republicans respectively - but the influence of National Socialists, Fascists and Communists grew as the war raged on, particularly in relation to the International Brigades.

But the war itself, wasn't really about Communists or Fascists at the outset.

 


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View elgrande's Profile elgrande Flag bedford 17 Oct 17 2.40pm Send a Private Message to elgrande Add elgrande as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset


Fascism needs defeating by any means necessary.

Really,so you agree with aggression then...wow just wow.

 


always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 17 Oct 17 2.41pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

A war between fascists and communists? The soviets backed the communists and Hitler and Mussolini backed the fascists.

I would have stayed out of it and moved. I'm a democrat.

That said, I've read that most democrats who were there fought on the communists side....Orwell did...though he quickly became disillusioned with the communists...So if I were forced to pick a side I would have fought for them rather than Franco.

Edited by Stirlingsays (17 Oct 2017 1.36pm)

The democratically elected Republicans.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 17 Oct 17 2.42pm

Originally posted by elgrande

Really,so you agree with aggression then...wow just wow.

I've never met pacifist fascists, or ones that respected the rights of others. Sooner or later, if you're going to stand up to the far right, you'll need to protect yourself.

 


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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 17 Oct 17 2.48pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Its reductive of the Spanish civil war to reduce it down to Fascists vs Communists.

The democratically elected government (left learning NOT communist) were subject to a military coup, supported by conservative elements of Spanish society, which included the two Spanish fascist groups.

The republicans ranged from pro-capitalist liberals, members of the middle classes, workers through to ardent Anarchists and Communists.

Early on the roles of the Fascists and Communists were fairly limited - Germany, Italy, Mexico and the Soviet were keen to do business with the Nationalists and Republicans respectively - but the influence of National Socialists, Fascists and Communists grew as the war raged on, particularly in relation to the International Brigades.

But the war itself, wasn't really about Communists or Fascists at the outset.

Fair enough.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View susmik's Profile susmik Flag PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 17 Oct 17 2.49pm Send a Private Message to susmik Add susmik as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

Well done everyone.

But Nick the hate crimes increase is down to all the crimes on us by immigrants NOT on the immigrants themselves. Our prisons are full to capacity with foreigners as well you know

 


Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.

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View elgrande's Profile elgrande Flag bedford 17 Oct 17 2.50pm Send a Private Message to elgrande Add elgrande as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

I've never met pacifist fascists, or ones that respected the rights of others. Sooner or later, if you're going to stand up to the far right, you'll need to protect yourself.

Yeah but jamie,we might have a few screw ball nazi loving idiots here....but its not the big massive problem that gusset makes out it is.
I would like to know how this hate crime figures pan out....what constitutes said hate crimes.
And who are the main culprits.
The left despise the jews,as does the muslims.
Yes you are going to get the bonehead idiots calling other nationalities names thats what idiots do.
But this country is not a seething mass of far right groups waiting to take control.
And as for violence there is no call for it here.

 


always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 17 Oct 17 2.51pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

The democratically elected Republicans.

I would need to read up on it more....whatever Orwell thought about it afterwards was probably the ethically correct path....I'd have to read about it.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 17 Oct 17 2.58pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

I've never met pacifist fascists, or ones that respected the rights of others. Sooner or later, if you're going to stand up to the far right, you'll need to protect yourself.

So, the old self defense defence.

Surely fascists could and have argued that they are defending themselves.

Hitler turned on Jews because he saw them as stateless and greedy which he considered a threat to German nationalism. That ultimately resulted in outright bigotry and hatred as it filtered down.
When you say you must defeat your perceived enemy by all means necessary, you are moving into dodgy territory, especially when most of their threat is in your mind.
Anti fascist ultimately equals fascist.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 17 Oct 17 3.07pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

So, the old self defense defence.

Surely fascists could and have argued that they are defending themselves.

Hitler turned on Jews because he saw them as stateless and greedy which he considered a threat to German nationalism. That ultimately resulted in outright bigotry and hatred as it filtered down.
When you say you must defeat your perceived enemy by all means necessary, you are moving into dodgy territory, especially when most of their threat is in your mind.
Anti fascist ultimately equals fascist.

I think I'm seeing some of this in this Vietham series. The various actors weren't wrong to be concerned with or indeed fighting communism....but apart from Kennedy there was a lack of understanding of the actual situation and how communism was a factor and not the whole story.

Once you start putting bodies in bags....attitudes harden and discussion becomes too polarised until the aggression is exhausted.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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