Cuba's not in South America. It's in the Caribbean, and compared to most of it's neighbours I reckon you'd rather be in most of them except Haiti.

Optimistic as ever

The US were somewhat paranoid about Communism, and used it as a blunt justification for cracking down on just about anything they saw as left wing, from unions right through to actual communists - and in doing so also allied themselves to some very dubious regimes and allies, that consequently resulted in oppression, murder, torture and support of dictatorships... I'm sure you can see the issue there in. That in the battle against Oppressive dictatorships, we endorsed supported, equipped and facilitated oppressive dictatorships across the globe.

So its ok if we benefit from the oppression, murder, torture and repression...

I think that would have been a disaster in terms of victory. Now it might have resulted in the end of the Soviet Union (but then maybe not) and the victory of the allies can very much be placed on the carnage that was the Eastern Front.

It would also have meant surrendering Europe to the National Socialists and Axis powers, along with Eastern Europe and parts of Africa and allowed the Nazis to secure their position without having the prospect of the second front to launch the invasion.

its also likely that it would have led to the US not being directly supportive of the UK, and the likelihood that the UK would also have been torn between choosing allies following Pearl Harbour.

Possibly the option of continuing the war following the fall of Germany, with the US against the Soviet might have been more viable, but its questionable whether either country would have remained sufficiently 'existant' as a result. Certainly the UK would have been bankrupted by a longer drawn out campaign against Russia, the US position post war would have been problematic for the rebuilding of Europe.

Alliance with Nazi Germany was never an option, at the time, they presented a far bigger threat to Europe than the Russians did, and the Germany attack of Russia, pretty much ground down the German ground forces that allowed for a liberation.

Russia became the threat after WWII largely because of the Germany aggression following the invasion of 1941, resulted in the Russian war machine being able to seize Eastern Europe as a result of overcoming the Nazi threat (and vitally eliminated logistical and military capacity of the German army from Africa and Europe).

Also, I'm not sure how much difference the BEF would have made to the German militaries success in Russia, if hypothetically, they could have been allied in 1939.
If we were talking from 1941 onwards - then the cost would have been western Europe.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

I'm not so sure about that, we have responsibility for the decisions of government, that dictatorships don't because we vote. Democracy entails a degree of responsibility for the action of those you vote for.

If you're Joe Bloggs in the UK, you're in a democracy, and have involvement in the process of selection of state and state representatives. Part of the reason we avoided WWIII lies also with the other side...

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

Well when you are talking about Communism compared to other regimes, the main factor was Russia. Their allies became our enemies by default, that was the over riding factor and the correct call.

As far as torture and the rest of it, you have just been making a case for Castro, so clearly what you tolerate from allies depends on politics and the benefits of the relationship. There is nothing new about ignoring the bad habits of allies.

As far as WW2 is concerned. I don't think we can speculate too much about how things would have turned out has we have switched sides so to speak. This would not have happened without America being on board and would have freed up lots of troops and equipment that could have been repositioned. Britain was not a natural enenmy of Germany through it's royal relationship and if rumours are to be believed then Dunkirk and the defeat of French and British troops was a result of information passed through George VIII.
Later, his brother was rumoured to have tried to broker a deal involving Hess when his plane crashed killing him. The records are still sealed, which should tell us something. We will never know I expect but as I said before, for our lives at least, the defeat of Germany has avoided WW3, but the cost did make this country far poorer than it would have been.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (28 Nov 2016 4.13pm)

Speaking as a "lefty" seeing other leftists support an oppressive dictator is just laughable.
People talk about the literacy rate but I don't really see the good in being literate if it doesn't enable you to be a free thinker, and i wonder what kind of medical care the gay men Castro threw in labor camps received. Would love to see how these people would react to any right wing dictator who improved health care and literacy rates if they did pesky little things like killing people

Number of people incarcerated per 10,000 of population as of April 2016:

USA...693

Cuba...510

As for gay rights,as I have said before the comparator is similar counties,ie Jamaica or Dominican Republic (which tried to stop the appointment of a gay US ambassador..

According to the New York Times,Fidel's niece has been a tireless campaigner for gay rights...

"After the 2007 march, Ms. Castro, who is straight, began a public campaign to promote tolerance. She persuaded the government in recent years to offer state-paid gender reassignment surgery and hormone treatment for transgender people. Last year (2013), when the Assembly passed a labor code that protected gays and lesbians — but not transgender people — from discrimination in the workplace, Ms. Castro became the first lawmaker in Cuban history to cast a dissenting vote in protest. Her ultimate goal, she said, was codifying full equality under the law.

Gay Cubans say that discrimination remains a problem, particularly outside big cities. Still, last year, a woman in Caribién, a municipality east of Havana, became the country’s first transgender elected official. At the urging of Ms. Castro and gay bloggers, in 2010 Cuba began voting in favor of resolutions supporting gay rights at the United Nations, breaking ranks with allies in Africa and the Caribbean."

I don't shy away from the repressive aspects of Fidel's rule...I just find it ironic when people so uncritically swallow 50 years' ceaseless propaganda emanating from the US,particularly in the form of the Calle Ocho nutters,and fail to judge Cuba relative its comparators and in light of 50 years' unceasing hostility and economic pressure..

Edited by legaleagle (29 Nov 2016 9.42am)