Martin McGuinness
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jamiemartin721  Reading 27 Mar 17 5.10pm |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
Surely a lot of that is do with areas such as a deregulated housing market and out of control rents, etc which is nothing to do with the EU but more to do with some of Thatcher's lovely ideas which are still in effect today. And this 'keeping wages down' EU baloney. Been blown out of the water recently, hasn't it? You can't exclude the impact of a cheap migrant labour force in keeping down wages, especially when you look at the growth of corporate exploitation of Eastern Europeans under the EU. The Housing markets have to respond to supply and demand, and the utilisation of cheap migrant labour into low skilled (working class) jobs has kept the rental market in the South East (among other places) afloat. Now I do hold Thatcher responsible for a lot of things, but realistically, blaming the past, isn't going to address the problems of the now.
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 Kermit8  Hevon 27 Mar 17 5.24pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
You can't exclude the impact of a cheap migrant labour force in keeping down wages, especially when you look at the growth of corporate exploitation of Eastern Europeans under the EU. The Housing markets have to respond to supply and demand, and the utilisation of cheap migrant labour into low skilled (working class) jobs has kept the rental market in the South East (among other places) afloat. Now I do hold Thatcher responsible for a lot of things, but realistically, blaming the past, isn't going to address the problems of the now. Ok, what employment areas are we talking about? We have the minimum and living wage for the lower salaried jobs and we need the migrants to do a lot of that other work that either the locals don't want to do or can't get to or simply are not enough of them to fill the vacancies like agricultural labour and the service sector in London's eateries. The nursing, engineering and building industry, perhaps? Again, we don't have enough UK-born workers to fill those vacancies. I know some Polish plumbers will be undercutting the £50 an hour local firm but that's just business, isn't it? And it's hard to feel sorry for someone who is basically charging an extortionate rate anyway.
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| Stirlingsays 27 Mar 17 5.40pm |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
Ok, what employment areas are we talking about? We have the minimum and living wage for the lower salaried jobs and we need the migrants to do a lot of that other work that either the locals don't want to do or can't get to or simply are not enough of them to fill the vacancies like agricultural labour and the service sector in London's eateries. The nursing, engineering and building industry, perhaps? Again, we don't have enough UK-born workers to fill those vacancies. I know some Polish plumbers will be undercutting the £50 an hour local firm but that's just business, isn't it? And it's hard to feel sorry for someone who is basically charging an extortionate rate anyway.
Wow, just wow. Those are political choices to hire rather than train. As a teacher I can tell you there are loads of British kids who are interested in well paid jobs like that. No wonder people get so angry with the left....man alive. Edited by Stirlingsays (27 Mar 2017 5.55pm)
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| Kermit8 Hevon 27 Mar 17 6.00pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Kermy I read your post and got so angry. We don't have enough UK born workers fill jobs in nursing, engineering and building???? Wow, just wow. Those are political choices to hire rather than train. As a teacher I can tell you there are loads of British kids who are interested in well paid jobs like that. No wonder people get so angry with the left....man alive. But it's true Stirling. As it stands the skill set of the UK workforce does not meet demand in so many areas hence the need to employ from elsewhere. Now I don't remember any Brexit policy nor assurances that that would definitely be addressed so I am not quite sure why you are getting angry with 'the left'. Is there a nurses drive planned in the future? No. Is there a Government will to improve the teaching situation? No. Engineering? No. Of course they are political choices but as it stands we need our migrant workforce. Thems just facts. And don't think this shower of sh1te in power or those behind Brexit will have the ability or nous to change that rapidly. All you are doing is highlighting a problem we all knew existed anyway for donkeys years and withholding any sort of tangible and assured solution. The British kids you mention can get those jobs - with the right skills. The vacancies are there. No stifling of wages. A lot of them are highly salaried. The problem is, of course, 'the skills'. The getting of. Edited by Kermit8 (27 Mar 2017 6.03pm)
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| Stirlingsays 27 Mar 17 7.04pm |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
But it's true Stirling. As it stands the skill set of the UK workforce does not meet demand in so many areas hence the need to employ from elsewhere. Now I don't remember any Brexit policy nor assurances that that would definitely be addressed so I am not quite sure why you are getting angry with 'the left'. Is there a nurses drive planned in the future? No. Is there a Government will to improve the teaching situation? No. Engineering? No. Of course they are political choices but as it stands we need our migrant workforce. Thems just facts. And don't think this shower of sh1te in power or those behind Brexit will have the ability or nous to change that rapidly. All you are doing is highlighting a problem we all knew existed anyway for donkeys years and withholding any sort of tangible and assured solution. The British kids you mention can get those jobs - with the right skills. The vacancies are there. No stifling of wages. A lot of them are highly salaried. The problem is, of course, 'the skills'. The getting of. Edited by Kermit8 (27 Mar 2017 6.03pm) Yeah I mean....Just how did we cope before all that extra immigration? I mean.... All those empty hospitals and empty engineering firms....oh and the construction sites...not a rustle or movement from anyone. I mean, of course you are right Kermy....How could it be otherwise...Of course our working class and lower middle class kids just aren't good enough in enough numb ers to get reasonably well paid jobs in nursing and engineering.....I mean you just didn't get enough lads interested in construction anymore.....Are you for real?? These are political choices....we don't need the levels of migration we have and never did. We have dumped our own youth and Labour have been complicate with lazy firms in enabling it. The very thing Labour complain about now...ie the undercutting of wages is almost entirely their fault in the first place from those record migration levels under their watch. You and your 'we need mass migration. The other week I showed you how Japan...a richer country than us...with a higher standard of living....Doesn't need, have nor want our levels of migration. You are peddling a myth. Edited by Stirlingsays (27 Mar 2017 7.05pm)
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| steeleye20 Croydon 27 Mar 17 7.25pm |
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A benefit of living in the EU is that you can work for an employer willing to hire you in another member state without complications. That's all it is. It's a market and when it changes people will go to a new location according to their wishes and employers requirements. There is a chronic problem of skill shortage here and we are often reminded of it and here S is right but its a political decision by a UK govt to change this. The majority of immigration is from outside the EU and is within our control already. Ministers have already given notice that immigration from the EU will not necessarily be lower as a result of brexit.
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| Hrolf The Ganger 27 Mar 17 8.01pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
A benefit of living in the EU is that you can work for an employer willing to hire you in another member state without complications. That's all it is. It's a market and when it changes people will go to a new location according to their wishes and employers requirements. There is a chronic problem of skill shortage here and we are often reminded of it and here S is right but its a political decision by a UK govt to change this. The majority of immigration is from outside the EU and is within our control already. Ministers have already given notice that immigration from the EU will not necessarily be lower as a result of brexit. And of course it is pure coincidence that the flattening out of wage increases and mass immigration in the last decade show a direct correlation. Wake up man. We are being screwed.
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| Kermit8 Hevon 27 Mar 17 8.01pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Yeah I mean....Just how did we cope before all that extra immigration? I mean.... All those empty hospitals and empty engineering firms....oh and the construction sites...not a rustle or movement from anyone. I mean, of course you are right Kermy....How could it be otherwise...Of course our working class and lower middle class kids just aren't good enough in enough numb ers to get reasonably well paid jobs in nursing and engineering.....I mean you just didn't get enough lads interested in construction anymore.....Are you for real?? These are political choices....we don't need the levels of migration we have and never did. We have dumped our own youth and Labour have been complicate with lazy firms in enabling it. The very thing Labour complain about now...ie the undercutting of wages is almost entirely their fault in the first place from those record migration levels under their watch. You and your 'we need mass migration. The other week I showed you how Japan...a richer country than us...with a higher standard of living....Doesn't need, have nor want our levels of migration. You are peddling a myth. Edited by Stirlingsays (27 Mar 2017 7.05pm) Blimey. You think we don't need 'migrant workers'? That's cloud-cuckoo land and alternative reality talk. We are not Japan. Never have been, never will be. Their culture is very different to ours and their history so much less influenced by other tribes/peoples over the centuries. It was closed to outsiders for hundreds of years. It's a silly comparison. We are a dna mix all the way from the romans.
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 27 Mar 17 8.29pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
And of course it is pure coincidence that the flattening out of wage increases and mass immigration in the last decade show a direct correlation. Wake up man. We are being screwed. There's also a direct correlation between wages and union membership. Wake up man, workers are being screwed. Edited by nickgusset (27 Mar 2017 8.29pm)
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Attachment: | Hrolf The Ganger 27 Mar 17 8.56pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
There's also a direct correlation between wages and union membership. Wake up man, workers are being screwed. Edited by nickgusset (27 Mar 2017 8.29pm) Middle Class income?
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| steeleye20 Croydon 27 Mar 17 9.03pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
And of course it is pure coincidence that the flattening out of wage increases and mass immigration in the last decade show a direct correlation. Wake up man. We are being screwed. No-one is screwing us but ourselves. I do agree with you on wages and it would make a big difference if the minimum wage was enforced. The EU ladies working here did not show up today as another employer will pay the minimum wage. Good on them.
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| Hrolf The Ganger 27 Mar 17 9.05pm |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
Blimey. You think we don't need 'migrant workers'? That's cloud-cuckoo land and alternative reality talk. We are not Japan. Never have been, never will be. Their culture is very different to ours and their history so much less influenced by other tribes/peoples over the centuries. It was closed to outsiders for hundreds of years. It's a silly comparison. We are a dna mix all the way from the romans. What a rubbish excuse for mass immigration.
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