Confederate Statues

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Ray in Houston Houston 16 Aug 17 9.10pm
Here's an interesting article that compares and contrasts the U.S' handling of its Confederate history with Germany's handling of its Nazi history. [Link] We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.
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Ray in Houston

Houston 16 Aug 17 9.10pm

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Here's an interesting article that compares and contrasts the U.S' handling of its Confederate history with Germany's handling of its Nazi history.

[Link]

We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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johnno42000 16 Aug 17 9.23pm
Originally posted by Ray in Houston I do understand what you mean, but the Treaty of Paris absolved them of the original act of treachery. A technicality for sure, but a fact nonetheless. Sorry they were traitors. My understanding is that the Treaty of Paris recognised the independence of America from a certain date, be that 1783 or 1776). Prior to July 1776 Washington and the rest had been at war with the rightful ruler of the Colonies, King George for around a year. From the moment they took up arms against King George up to the date that the Independence was recognised they would have been acting as traitors. Edited by johnno42000 (16 Aug 2017 9.23pm) 'Lies to the masses as are like fly's to mollasses...they want more and more and more'
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johnno42000

16 Aug 17 9.23pm

Originally posted by Ray in Houston

I do understand what you mean, but the Treaty of Paris absolved them of the original act of treachery. A technicality for sure, but a fact nonetheless.

Sorry they were traitors. My understanding is that the Treaty of Paris recognised the independence of America from a certain date, be that 1783 or 1776).

Prior to July 1776 Washington and the rest had been at war with the rightful ruler of the Colonies, King George for around a year. From the moment they took up arms against King George up to the date that the Independence was recognised they would have been acting as traitors.

Edited by johnno42000 (16 Aug 2017 9.23pm)

'Lies to the masses as are like fly's to mollasses...they want more and more and more'

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Ray in Houston Houston 16 Aug 17 9.43pm
Originally posted by johnno42000 Sorry they were traitors. My understanding is that the Treaty of Paris recognised the independence of America from a certain date, be that 1783 or 1776). Prior to July 1776 Washington and the rest had been at war with the rightful ruler of the Colonies, King George for around a year. From the moment they took up arms against King George up to the date that the Independence was recognised they would have been acting as traitors. I am not disagreeing with you at all. We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.
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Ray in Houston

Houston 16 Aug 17 9.43pm

Originally posted by johnno42000

Sorry they were traitors. My understanding is that the Treaty of Paris recognised the independence of America from a certain date, be that 1783 or 1776).

I am not disagreeing with you at all.

We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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hedgehog50 Croydon 16 Aug 17 10.29pm
Mind you, I still think it is a bit daft to take down historical artefacts. Attachment: dd.jpg (37.47Kb) We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 16 Aug 17 10.29pm

Mind you, I still think it is a bit daft to take down historical artefacts.

Attachment: dd.jpg (37.47Kb)

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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davenotamonkey 16 Aug 17 10.35pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 The past is a another country. 'Who controls the past' ran the Party slogan, 'controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.' [Orwell] In London there is a statue of Oliver Cromwell, nearby there is a statue of Charles I - which one should be taken down? Here's another one, 1984: “Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.” I'm already seeing revisionism, airbrushing and cosseting in academia. Kings College London has replaced portraits of "bearded white scholars" because it was "intimidating". Frankly, you should be fkucking intimidated by James Clark Maxwell - he is the father of Electromagnetic theory. I was intimidated, both in differential and integral forms of his laws. Statues are triggering. Ask Oriel College, Oxford, about the Rhodes statue. Perhaps Bill Clinton should be stripped of his Rhodes Scholarship? How dare he have accepted his stipend? Did he not know the history? Free speech and discourse on-campus are being stifled, so as not to cause offense or distress. Huge scientific projects are under attack, due to idiotic social justice warriors desperate to "decolonise" science, whilst jumping on the backs of anyone that either voices dissent or (worse) is taken out of context. This is all just a gentrified version of the culture war that is now spilling onto the streets. Attempts to re-define or twist the past, even on here: suggesting that "Antifa were storming Normandy". Jesus. Enough.
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davenotamonkey

16 Aug 17 10.35pm

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Originally posted by hedgehog50

The past is a another country.

'Who controls the past' ran the Party slogan, 'controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.' [Orwell]

In London there is a statue of Oliver Cromwell, nearby there is a statue of Charles I - which one should be taken down?

Here's another one, 1984:
“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.”

I'm already seeing revisionism, airbrushing and cosseting in academia. Kings College London has replaced portraits of "bearded white scholars" because it was "intimidating". Frankly, you should be fkucking intimidated by James Clark Maxwell - he is the father of Electromagnetic theory. I was intimidated, both in differential and integral forms of his laws.

Statues are triggering. Ask Oriel College, Oxford, about the Rhodes statue. Perhaps Bill Clinton should be stripped of his Rhodes Scholarship? How dare he have accepted his stipend? Did he not know the history?

Free speech and discourse on-campus are being stifled, so as not to cause offense or distress.

Huge scientific projects are under attack, due to idiotic social justice warriors desperate to "decolonise" science, whilst jumping on the backs of anyone that either voices dissent or (worse) is taken out of context.

This is all just a gentrified version of the culture war that is now spilling onto the streets. Attempts to re-define or twist the past, even on here: suggesting that "Antifa were storming Normandy". Jesus. Enough.

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davenotamonkey 16 Aug 17 10.36pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Except of course no one was pulling down the statues they democratically took a decision to move the statue. Oddly you don't see many of those Neo-Nazis and White Supremacist voting on the issue, or running for council. Yeah... meanwhile, in an entirely unrelated event: [Tweet Link] Just look at the peaceful left. I'm sure they'll be right along to the Lenin statue in Seattle to give it the same treatment, right? Martin Luther King had some extremely dubious views about homosexuality that would make the right-on brigade cringe on here. I don't give a 5hit about historical relativism now, because those calling for "pull down the statues" don't either. So. We taking down all the MLK statues as well? Hmm? This is the thin edge of the wedge. The shutting down of speech, the burning buildings, the utter intolerance towards other views (on both sides of the divide). Happy birthday Soros, you got your wish.
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davenotamonkey

16 Aug 17 10.36pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Except of course no one was pulling down the statues they democratically took a decision to move the statue.

Oddly you don't see many of those Neo-Nazis and White Supremacist voting on the issue, or running for council.

Yeah... meanwhile, in an entirely unrelated event:

[Tweet Link]

Just look at the peaceful left. I'm sure they'll be right along to the Lenin statue in Seattle to give it the same treatment, right?

Martin Luther King had some extremely dubious views about homosexuality that would make the right-on brigade cringe on here. I don't give a 5hit about historical relativism now, because those calling for "pull down the statues" don't either. So. We taking down all the MLK statues as well? Hmm?

This is the thin edge of the wedge. The shutting down of speech, the burning buildings, the utter intolerance towards other views (on both sides of the divide). Happy birthday Soros, you got your wish.

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davenotamonkey 16 Aug 17 10.44pm
Originally posted by davenotamonkey Yeah... meanwhile, in an entirely unrelated event: [Tweet Link] Just look at the peaceful left. I'm sure they'll be right along to the Lenin statue in Seattle to give it the same treatment, right? Martin Luther King had some extremely dubious views about homosexuality that would make the right-on brigade cringe on here. I don't give a 5hit about historical relativism now, because those calling for "pull down the statues" don't either. So. We taking down all the MLK statues as well? Hmm? This is the thin edge of the wedge. The shutting down of speech, the burning buildings, the utter intolerance towards other views (on both sides of the divide). Happy birthday Soros, you got your wish. Come in, Washington: your time is up! [Link] (As indeed predicted by Trump yesterday). Nothing will escape the purge, comrades. You think you're black enough to escape the cleansing? Think again, you "white-passing BIPOC": [Link] This intersectionalist bull5hit is literally a cancer on our society, but the "alt-right" are certainly not the chemo (perhaps more an AIDS alternative).
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davenotamonkey

16 Aug 17 10.44pm

Originally posted by davenotamonkey

Yeah... meanwhile, in an entirely unrelated event:

[Tweet Link]

Just look at the peaceful left. I'm sure they'll be right along to the Lenin statue in Seattle to give it the same treatment, right?

Come in, Washington: your time is up!

[Link]

(As indeed predicted by Trump yesterday).

Nothing will escape the purge, comrades. You think you're black enough to escape the cleansing? Think again, you "white-passing BIPOC":

[Link]

This intersectionalist bull5hit is literally a cancer on our society, but the "alt-right" are certainly not the chemo (perhaps more an AIDS alternative).

Alert a moderator to this post

wordup 16 Aug 17 10.44pm
Originally posted by davenotamonkey Yeah... meanwhile, in an entirely unrelated event: [Tweet Link] Just look at the peaceful left. I'm sure they'll be right along to the Lenin statue in Seattle to give it the same treatment, right? Martin Luther King had some extremely dubious views about homosexuality that would make the right-on brigade cringe on here. I don't give a 5hit about historical relativism now, because those calling for "pull down the statues" don't either. So. We taking down all the MLK statues as well? Hmm? This is the thin edge of the wedge. The shutting down of speech, the burning buildings, the utter intolerance towards other views (on both sides of the divide). Happy birthday Soros, you got your wish. This is 100% wrong on my view. It should be down to the local community to decide what happens with these monuments, not mob rule. I always find that it's useful for people to record their criminals acts though, saves on paperwork.
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wordup

16 Aug 17 10.44pm

Originally posted by davenotamonkey

Yeah... meanwhile, in an entirely unrelated event:

[Tweet Link]

Just look at the peaceful left. I'm sure they'll be right along to the Lenin statue in Seattle to give it the same treatment, right?

This is 100% wrong on my view. It should be down to the local community to decide what happens with these monuments, not mob rule. I always find that it's useful for people to record their criminals acts though, saves on paperwork.

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Ray in Houston Houston 16 Aug 17 10.48pm
Originally posted by davenotamonkey Here's another one, 1984: “Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.” To be fair, Orwell was talking about the gaslighting of an entire nation such that they were required to believe what they knew not to be true. That's not the same as a town moving a statue because they decide they want to. In "1984", Orwell also wrote about endless war as a political tool. Apropos nothing, we've been in Afghanistan for 16 years, 3 Presidents and counting, with no end in sight. We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.
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Ray in Houston

Houston 16 Aug 17 10.48pm

Originally posted by davenotamonkey

To be fair, Orwell was talking about the gaslighting of an entire nation such that they were required to believe what they knew not to be true. That's not the same as a town moving a statue because they decide they want to.

In "1984", Orwell also wrote about endless war as a political tool. Apropos nothing, we've been in Afghanistan for 16 years, 3 Presidents and counting, with no end in sight.

We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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Stirlingsays 16 Aug 17 11.00pm
Originally posted by wordup This is 100% wrong on my view. It should be down to the local community to decide what happens with these monuments, not mob rule. I always find that it's useful for people to record their criminals acts though, saves on paperwork. Yep, I agree. These decisions should be down to the local people. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

16 Aug 17 11.00pm

Originally posted by wordup

Yep, I agree. These decisions should be down to the local people.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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davenotamonkey 16 Aug 17 11.01pm
Originally posted by Ray in Houston To be fair, Orwell was talking about the gaslighting of an entire nation such that they were required to believe what they knew not to be true. That's not the same as a town moving a statue because they decide they want to. In "1984", Orwell also wrote about endless war as a political tool. Apropos nothing, we've been in Afghanistan for 16 years, 3 Presidents and counting, with no end in sight. The press are doing a pretty stellar job thus-far, handily reinforced by a growing authoritarian intolerance of dissent that segues nicely to thought-crime. We're getting there. It's called boiling a frog; the water just got a bit too hot recently, and some of the frogs are restless... ..this is crying out for a Pepe meme now.
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davenotamonkey

16 Aug 17 11.01pm

Originally posted by Ray in Houston

In "1984", Orwell also wrote about endless war as a political tool. Apropos nothing, we've been in Afghanistan for 16 years, 3 Presidents and counting, with no end in sight.

The press are doing a pretty stellar job thus-far, handily reinforced by a growing authoritarian intolerance of dissent that segues nicely to thought-crime.

We're getting there. It's called boiling a frog; the water just got a bit too hot recently, and some of the frogs are restless...

..this is crying out for a Pepe meme now.

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Ray in Houston Houston 16 Aug 17 11.24pm
Originally posted by davenotamonkey The press are doing a pretty stellar job thus-far, handily reinforced by a growing authoritarian intolerance of dissent that segues nicely to thought-crime. We're getting there. It's called boiling a frog; the water just got a bit too hot recently, and some of the frogs are restless... ..this is crying out for a Pepe meme now. Colour me confused; the frog-boiling analogy is such that they don't get restless, they just get boiled. As for intolerance of dissent, the Unite the Right march was helped by the ALCU in getting its permit to hold its rally in the park where Lee's statue resides - the city wanted it elsewhere and the ACLU helped the organisers in their legal battle to march where they wanted. Free speech is still a thing that people cherish and defend. While the press deserves criticism - like for its drumbeat to war with Iraq over fictitious WMDs - it's still a handy bulwark against the power of the elites. It's the only one we've got, so we need to nurture it rather than tear it down. We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.
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Ray in Houston

Houston 16 Aug 17 11.24pm

Originally posted by davenotamonkey

The press are doing a pretty stellar job thus-far, handily reinforced by a growing authoritarian intolerance of dissent that segues nicely to thought-crime.

We're getting there. It's called boiling a frog; the water just got a bit too hot recently, and some of the frogs are restless...

..this is crying out for a Pepe meme now.

Colour me confused; the frog-boiling analogy is such that they don't get restless, they just get boiled.

As for intolerance of dissent, the Unite the Right march was helped by the ALCU in getting its permit to hold its rally in the park where Lee's statue resides - the city wanted it elsewhere and the ACLU helped the organisers in their legal battle to march where they wanted. Free speech is still a thing that people cherish and defend.

While the press deserves criticism - like for its drumbeat to war with Iraq over fictitious WMDs - it's still a handy bulwark against the power of the elites. It's the only one we've got, so we need to nurture it rather than tear it down.

We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

Alert a moderator to this post

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