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Stirlingsays 19 Oct 17 3.28pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 No, but they were also outlaws and moonshiners and law breakers - It'd be really weird if they were also making a statement about their respect for authority... My issue here was more about people with a confederate flag claiming to be patriots and true Americans - not slavery (I get that not everything about the civil war and the confederacy was just about slavery and not everyone sporting one is pro-slavery). 'True Americans'? Isn't that the 'no true scotsman'....from what I remember the southern states were still going to call themselves Americans just under their own government....they were rebelling Americans...in the wrong but rebelling anyway. It can be argued that when they broke away from the British in the independence war that they were in fact rebel British and not legitimate Americans. But anyway....the waitress was the only reason to watch. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

19 Oct 17 3.28pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

No, but they were also outlaws and moonshiners and law breakers - It'd be really weird if they were also making a statement about their respect for authority...

My issue here was more about people with a confederate flag claiming to be patriots and true Americans - not slavery (I get that not everything about the civil war and the confederacy was just about slavery and not everyone sporting one is pro-slavery).

'True Americans'? Isn't that the 'no true scotsman'....from what I remember the southern states were still going to call themselves Americans just under their own government....they were rebelling Americans...in the wrong but rebelling anyway. It can be argued that when they broke away from the British in the independence war that they were in fact rebel British and not legitimate Americans.

But anyway....the waitress was the only reason to watch.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Ray in Houston Houston 19 Oct 17 3.43pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays 'True Americans'? Isn't that the 'no true scotsman'....from what I remember the southern states were still going to call themselves Americans just under their own government....they were rebelling Americans...in the wrong but rebelling anyway. It can be argued that when they broke away from the British in the independence war that they were in fact rebel British and not legitimate Americans. The leaders of the American revolution - all participants on the American side, in fact - were British citizens. Many were born in Britain. They fought a fight they believed just, and won; just like Texas fought for its independence from Mexico. In both cases, the new countries adopted a new flag, just like the south had adopted a new flag for what would have been, if they'd not lost, the new country called the Confederate States of America. "Americans" is a common but incorrect description of U.S. citizens. Had the Confederacy prevailed, "Americans" would have had to be qualified at every usage to distinguish between the two. Like East and West Germany before the wall fell. We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.
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Ray in Houston

Houston 19 Oct 17 3.43pm

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Originally posted by Stirlingsays

The leaders of the American revolution - all participants on the American side, in fact - were British citizens. Many were born in Britain. They fought a fight they believed just, and won; just like Texas fought for its independence from Mexico. In both cases, the new countries adopted a new flag, just like the south had adopted a new flag for what would have been, if they'd not lost, the new country called the Confederate States of America.

"Americans" is a common but incorrect description of U.S. citizens. Had the Confederacy prevailed, "Americans" would have had to be qualified at every usage to distinguish between the two. Like East and West Germany before the wall fell.

We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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Stirlingsays 19 Oct 17 3.48pm
Originally posted by Ray in Houston The leaders of the American revolution - all participants on the American side, in fact - were British citizens. Many were born in Britain. They fought a fight they believed just, and won; just like Texas fought for its independence from Mexico. In both cases, the new countries adopted a new flag, just like the south had adopted a new flag for what would have been, if they'd not lost, the new country called the Confederate States of America. "Americans" is a common but incorrect description of U.S. citizens. Had the Confederacy prevailed, "Americans" would have had to be qualified at every usage to distinguish between the two. Like East and West Germany before the wall fell. It's interesting stuff. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

19 Oct 17 3.48pm

Originally posted by Ray in Houston

It's interesting stuff.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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jamiemartin721 Reading 19 Oct 17 4.49pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays 'True Americans'? Isn't that the 'no true scotsman'....from what I remember the southern states were still going to call themselves Americans just under their own government....they were rebelling Americans...in the wrong but rebelling anyway. It can be argued that when they broke away from the British in the independence war that they were in fact rebel British and not legitimate Americans. But anyway....the waitress was the only reason to watch. Daisy Duke hoola! Gave her name to a fashion object. It winners go get to determine what America is, not the losers. The American of now wasn't devised by the Confederates, they lost. America is the Union forces. A patriot would surely wave the Stars and stripes, not the flag of those who opposed it. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 19 Oct 17 4.49pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Daisy Duke hoola! Gave her name to a fashion object.

It winners go get to determine what America is, not the losers. The American of now wasn't devised by the Confederates, they lost. America is the Union forces.

A patriot would surely wave the Stars and stripes, not the flag of those who opposed it.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Ray in Houston Houston 19 Oct 17 4.52pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Daisy Duke hoola! Gave her name to a fashion object. It winners go get to determine what America is, not the losers. The American of now wasn't devised by the Confederates, they lost. America is the Union forces. A patriot would surely wave the Stars and stripes, not the flag of those who opposed it. Exactly. What should really bake your noodle is that there are U.S. Army bases named after Confederate generals. That's like having an RAF base called "Göring"! We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.
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Ray in Houston

Houston 19 Oct 17 4.52pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Daisy Duke hoola! Gave her name to a fashion object.

It winners go get to determine what America is, not the losers. The American of now wasn't devised by the Confederates, they lost. America is the Union forces.

A patriot would surely wave the Stars and stripes, not the flag of those who opposed it.

Exactly. What should really bake your noodle is that there are U.S. Army bases named after Confederate generals. That's like having an RAF base called "Göring"!

We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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Ray in Houston Houston 19 Oct 17 5.05pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Daisy Duke hoola! Gave her name to a fashion object. It winners go get to determine what America is, not the losers. The American of now wasn't devised by the Confederates, they lost. America is the Union forces. A patriot would surely wave the Stars and stripes, not the flag of those who opposed it. Also, think about the development of the Union Jack. It didn't come about all at once, it was built over time by conquering people. Scotland had St. Andrew's diagonal white cross on a blue background, and England had St. George's red cross on a white background. In the 17th century, they combined the two. It wasn't until the 19th century, when Britain added Ireland to its collection, that the diagonal red cross of St. Patrick was added. Wales, of course, not being a real country, isn't represented on the Union Jack. We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.
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Ray in Houston

Houston 19 Oct 17 5.05pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Daisy Duke hoola! Gave her name to a fashion object.

It winners go get to determine what America is, not the losers. The American of now wasn't devised by the Confederates, they lost. America is the Union forces.

A patriot would surely wave the Stars and stripes, not the flag of those who opposed it.

Also, think about the development of the Union Jack. It didn't come about all at once, it was built over time by conquering people. Scotland had St. Andrew's diagonal white cross on a blue background, and England had St. George's red cross on a white background. In the 17th century, they combined the two. It wasn't until the 19th century, when Britain added Ireland to its collection, that the diagonal red cross of St. Patrick was added.

Wales, of course, not being a real country, isn't represented on the Union Jack.

We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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Stirlingsays 19 Oct 17 5.12pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Daisy Duke hoola! Gave her name to a fashion object. It winners go get to determine what America is, not the losers. The American of now wasn't devised by the Confederates, they lost. America is the Union forces. A patriot would surely wave the Stars and stripes, not the flag of those who opposed it. I think most of those who wave the confederate flag would wave the American one. I know you understand what goes on with this mentality. It's their bit of independence from within that state system....lots of people like to stick the middle finger up to the controlling authority and that's how some of them do it. I doubt most of them agree with slavery....but they like being Southern....and if you tell people they can't do something....that aren't going to work unless you stick a gun to their heads like China do. So....it's tolerance isn't it....something this country is starting to apt America and lack. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

19 Oct 17 5.12pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Daisy Duke hoola! Gave her name to a fashion object.

It winners go get to determine what America is, not the losers. The American of now wasn't devised by the Confederates, they lost. America is the Union forces.

A patriot would surely wave the Stars and stripes, not the flag of those who opposed it.

I think most of those who wave the confederate flag would wave the American one. I know you understand what goes on with this mentality. It's their bit of independence from within that state system....lots of people like to stick the middle finger up to the controlling authority and that's how some of them do it.

I doubt most of them agree with slavery....but they like being Southern....and if you tell people they can't do something....that aren't going to work unless you stick a gun to their heads like China do.

So....it's tolerance isn't it....something this country is starting to apt America and lack.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays 19 Oct 17 5.14pm
Originally posted by Ray in Houston Also, think about the development of the Union Jack. It didn't come about all at once, it was built over time by conquering people. Scotland had St. Andrew's diagonal white cross on a blue background, and England had St. George's red cross on a white background. In the 17th century, they combined the two. It wasn't until the 19th century, when Britain added Ireland to its collection, that the diagonal red cross of St. Patrick was added. Wales, of course, not being a real country, isn't represented on the Union Jack. I once shagged a welsh nationalist girl....She didn't know that I thought her politics was a little pointless.....good shag though....I felt that urge for independence with every groan. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

19 Oct 17 5.14pm

Originally posted by Ray in Houston

Wales, of course, not being a real country, isn't represented on the Union Jack.

I once shagged a welsh nationalist girl....She didn't know that I thought her politics was a little pointless.....good shag though....I felt that urge for independence with every groan.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Ray in Houston Houston 19 Oct 17 5.18pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays I once shagged a welsh nationalist girl....She didn't know that I thought her politics was a little pointless.....good shag though....I felt that urge for independence with every groan. Both of them? We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.
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Ray in Houston

Houston 19 Oct 17 5.18pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I once shagged a welsh nationalist girl....She didn't know that I thought her politics was a little pointless.....good shag though....I felt that urge for independence with every groan.

Both of them?

We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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Stirlingsays 19 Oct 17 5.23pm
Originally posted by Ray in Houston Both of them? oOOh you bitch Ray! 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

19 Oct 17 5.23pm

Originally posted by Ray in Houston

Both of them?

oOOh you bitch Ray!

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stuk Top half 19 Oct 17 5.37pm
Originally posted by Ray in Houston Exactly. What should really bake your noodle is that there are U.S. Army bases named after Confederate generals. That's like having an RAF base called "Göring"! Not really, that wasn't a civil war. Optimistic as ever
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Stuk

Top half 19 Oct 17 5.37pm

Originally posted by Ray in Houston

Exactly. What should really bake your noodle is that there are U.S. Army bases named after Confederate generals. That's like having an RAF base called "Göring"!

Not really, that wasn't a civil war.

Optimistic as ever

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jamiemartin721 Reading 19 Oct 17 5.56pm
Originally posted by Stuk Not really, that wasn't a civil war. Fair point there are a lot of Kings Head pubs and Cromwell roads in the UK! "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 19 Oct 17 5.56pm

Originally posted by Stuk

Not really, that wasn't a civil war.

Fair point there are a lot of Kings Head pubs and Cromwell roads in the UK!

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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