Sexual Harrassment

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 07 Nov 17 4.34pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Oddly though there doesn't seem to be anyone suggesting that those accusing Kevin Spacey are making it up. As for the US voters, they elected a f**king idiot to be president. The other half voted for a corrupt elitist. Whilst I think we have to trust voters on the basis of their decisions, we shouldn't award them any special value. A man who by his own statements is a sex pest on two separate interviews (Bush and Stern). Do you think all those women are lying? Yep funny how in this patriarchal society that men who make accusations are immediately believed whilst women who do the same are gold diggers.
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 07 Nov 17 4.34pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Oddly though there doesn't seem to be anyone suggesting that those accusing Kevin Spacey are making it up.

As for the US voters, they elected a f**king idiot to be president. The other half voted for a corrupt elitist. Whilst I think we have to trust voters on the basis of their decisions, we shouldn't award them any special value.

A man who by his own statements is a sex pest on two separate interviews (Bush and Stern).

Do you think all those women are lying?

Yep funny how in this patriarchal society that men who make accusations are immediately believed whilst women who do the same are gold diggers.

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Lyons550 Shirley 07 Nov 17 4.51pm
Originally posted by johnno42000 From what I've read he was suspended after Carwyn Jones had heard allegations from several women. What they were and whether they are true aren't known by us yet. The man could have been suffering from depression and the mere fact he was accused, even if there were no basis, could have been enough to push him over the edge. Then again they could have been telling the truth and he may have been guilty of something. Yep, I completely understand that there may well have been other issues at play here, but the possibilities that one may have led or triggered another is more than probable. I wonder how those how made the allegations now feel? Would they be happy or would there now be a feeling of guilt? The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World
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Lyons550

Shirley 07 Nov 17 4.51pm

Originally posted by johnno42000

From what I've read he was suspended after Carwyn Jones had heard allegations from several women. What they were and whether they are true aren't known by us yet.

The man could have been suffering from depression and the mere fact he was accused, even if there were no basis, could have been enough to push him over the edge. Then again they could have been telling the truth and he may have been guilty of something.

Yep, I completely understand that there may well have been other issues at play here, but the possibilities that one may have led or triggered another is more than probable. I wonder how those how made the allegations now feel? Would they be happy or would there now be a feeling of guilt?

The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

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Lyons550 Shirley 07 Nov 17 4.54pm
Originally posted by nickgusset Yep funny how in this patriarchal society that men who make accusations are immediately believed whilst women who do the same are gold diggers. Thats why it should be 'innocent until proved guilty', we know that there will always be those who through some affinity with Munchausen syndrome will try and associate themselves with these sort of things...its the way of the world alas, and why ONLY facts should win out not assumption and suggestion. The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World
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Lyons550

Shirley 07 Nov 17 4.54pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

Yep funny how in this patriarchal society that men who make accusations are immediately believed whilst women who do the same are gold diggers.

Thats why it should be 'innocent until proved guilty', we know that there will always be those who through some affinity with Munchausen syndrome will try and associate themselves with these sort of things...its the way of the world alas, and why ONLY facts should win out not assumption and suggestion.

The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

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steeleye20 Croydon 07 Nov 17 5.05pm
Originally posted by Lyons550 Yep, I completely understand that there may well have been other issues at play here, but the possibilities that one may have led or triggered another is more than probable. I wonder how those how made the allegations now feel? Would they be happy or would there now be a feeling of guilt? What do you think L. It seems to me that someone can make allegations which are subsequently shown to be baseless,and ruin somebodies life, and then just walk away. Ok they can be sued but who wants or can afford to do that.
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steeleye20

Croydon 07 Nov 17 5.05pm

Originally posted by Lyons550

What do you think L.

It seems to me that someone can make allegations which are subsequently shown to be baseless,and ruin somebodies life, and then just walk away.

Ok they can be sued but who wants or can afford to do that.

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Lyons550 Shirley 07 Nov 17 5.12pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 What do you think L. It seems to me that someone can make allegations which are subsequently shown to be baseless,and ruin somebodies life, and then just walk away. Ok they can be sued but who wants or can afford to do that. It really is hard to say without the facts...but there are so many willing to ignore or not wait for the facts before then accusing people...who knows in this case...If you weigh up what is in the public arena then the weight of probability is that there's no smoke without fire to warrant a'sacking' but as to how that has anything to do with his tragic suicide i haven't a clue mate.. The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World
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Lyons550

Shirley 07 Nov 17 5.12pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

What do you think L.

It seems to me that someone can make allegations which are subsequently shown to be baseless,and ruin somebodies life, and then just walk away.

Ok they can be sued but who wants or can afford to do that.

It really is hard to say without the facts...but there are so many willing to ignore or not wait for the facts before then accusing people...who knows in this case...If you weigh up what is in the public arena then the weight of probability is that there's no smoke without fire to warrant a'sacking' but as to how that has anything to do with his tragic suicide i haven't a clue mate..

The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 07 Nov 17 5.37pm
Originally posted by Lyons550 It really is hard to say without the facts...but there are so many willing to ignore or not wait for the facts before then accusing people...who knows in this case...If you weigh up what is in the public arena then the weight of probability is that there's no smoke without fire to warrant a'sacking' but as to how that has anything to do with his tragic suicide i haven't a clue mate.. The MP still didn't know what the allegations were apparently.
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 07 Nov 17 5.37pm

Originally posted by Lyons550

The MP still didn't know what the allegations were apparently.

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steeleye20 Croydon 07 Nov 17 5.46pm
Originally posted by nickgusset Yep funny how in this patriarchal society that men who make accusations are immediately believed whilst women who do the same are gold diggers. The women who make these accusations are likely to be lying and they have a financial motive. They may come under pressure from lawyers to press their claims, to win regardless of their falsity. We just don't know.
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steeleye20

Croydon 07 Nov 17 5.46pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

Yep funny how in this patriarchal society that men who make accusations are immediately believed whilst women who do the same are gold diggers.

The women who make these accusations are likely to be lying and they have a financial motive.

They may come under pressure from lawyers to press their claims, to win regardless of their falsity.

We just don't know.

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hedgehog50 Croydon 07 Nov 17 5.55pm
. Edited by hedgehog50 (07 Nov 2017 6.41pm) We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 07 Nov 17 5.55pm

Edited by hedgehog50 (07 Nov 2017 6.41pm)

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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Stirlingsays 07 Nov 17 7.30pm
Originally posted by nickgusset Yep funny how in this patriarchal society that men who make accusations are immediately believed whilst women who do the same are gold diggers. You sound like an Islamic reformer. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

07 Nov 17 7.30pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

Yep funny how in this patriarchal society that men who make accusations are immediately believed whilst women who do the same are gold diggers.

You sound like an Islamic reformer.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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rikz Croydon 07 Nov 17 7.32pm
Originally posted by nickgusset Yep funny how in this patriarchal society that men who make accusations are immediately believed whilst women who do the same are gold diggers. Again like women are more likely to be sexually assaulted and need better protection, women are also more likely to cry rape against a male and the male needs better protection. It will never be perfect and there will be individual cases on either side that we get wrong but on the whole I think we've got the balance pretty spot on.
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rikz

Croydon 07 Nov 17 7.32pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

Yep funny how in this patriarchal society that men who make accusations are immediately believed whilst women who do the same are gold diggers.

Again like women are more likely to be sexually assaulted and need better protection, women are also more likely to cry rape against a male and the male needs better protection. It will never be perfect and there will be individual cases on either side that we get wrong but on the whole I think we've got the balance pretty spot on.

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Stirlingsays 07 Nov 17 7.44pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 What do you think L. It seems to me that someone can make allegations which are subsequently shown to be baseless,and ruin somebodies life, and then just walk away. Ok they can be sued but who wants or can afford to do that. I know this has happened in teaching. For years now I hear how accusers should be 'believed' and how the system is rigged against them and that they give up. I certainly agree that the system isn't easy. However, no system that is fair to both sides can be.....You can't get instant justice in life. Because a percent of people will lie or embellish those who are honest have to undergo the process. Indeed, those who are innocent and yet accused often have their entire careers wrecked....are tarred by the brush. People lose their jobs and we have had suicides. It is very very important that justice is no affected by societal zeitgeists and that 'innocent until proven guilty' is reality and not just warm words. We have become 'trial by media'. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

07 Nov 17 7.44pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

What do you think L.

It seems to me that someone can make allegations which are subsequently shown to be baseless,and ruin somebodies life, and then just walk away.

Ok they can be sued but who wants or can afford to do that.

I know this has happened in teaching.

For years now I hear how accusers should be 'believed' and how the system is rigged against them and that they give up.

I certainly agree that the system isn't easy.

However, no system that is fair to both sides can be.....You can't get instant justice in life. Because a percent of people will lie or embellish those who are honest have to undergo the process.

Indeed, those who are innocent and yet accused often have their entire careers wrecked....are tarred by the brush. People lose their jobs and we have had suicides.

It is very very important that justice is no affected by societal zeitgeists and that 'innocent until proven guilty' is reality and not just warm words.

We have become 'trial by media'.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays 07 Nov 17 7.53pm
I'd also make the point that suicides of accused or the guilty are not uncommon. Prisoners being put on suicide watch is age old. Some mindsets are never far from the edge in terms of suicide, males to a greater degree. This is a difficult area. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

07 Nov 17 7.53pm

I'd also make the point that suicides of accused or the guilty are not uncommon. Prisoners being put on suicide watch is age old.

Some mindsets are never far from the edge in terms of suicide, males to a greater degree.

This is a difficult area.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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