You are here: Home > Message Board > News & Politics > Topic
November 28 2020 8.07am

Why is this a BBC top story? (LOCKED)

Previous Topic | Next Topic


Page 148 of 152 < 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 >

Topic Locked

View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 05 Mar 20 12.02pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger


You are providing me with the perfect excuse to say that all Muslim immigration should be halted.

You think that these lifetime indoctrinated people can be educated? Over how long? And they keep coming wave after wave so this problem will be endless.
No. We have to put a halt to this now by limiting the number of Muslims in this country. That is the only answer that ultimately solves the problem. Those here already will grow old and they will eventually have fewer children.

You don't like that solution because secretly, you consider your rainbow world ideals more important than the welfare of a few thousand young British girls.

Own it Wisbech. Tell the truth for a change.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (05 Mar 2020 10.50am)

I will ignore your ridiculous assertions.

Your "solution" is completely impractical.

We don't restrict people's entry because of their religious belief, or lack of one. So far as I am aware we don't even ask them about this during the application process and even if we started to how would we know whether they told the truth, especially if the knew what the consequences would be for giving the "wrong" answer.

The only way would be to restrict immigration by specific countries but that would open up a huge box of worms. We would be in breach of international conventions which could result in us becoming a pariah state, cutting down our trading opportunities. Minorities within the targeted countries would suffer as would family members.

It wouldn't work and it won't be tried. It also isn't needed. The "indoctrinated" within the communities are obviously a problem but they are very much in the minority. We need to squeeze that minority to contain it's impact and gradually reduce it's number by educating the upcoming generations within our schools and institutions. Those who preach and teach hate need to be removed from society, without compromise.

It has zilch to do with idealism. It has only to do with seeking practical solutions that will actually, in time, work. Indeed your suggestions only exacerbate the problems by building resentment and encouraging the radicalisation of the impressionable.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post
View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 05 Mar 20 12.11pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

What had this to do with rapists and how to ensure the future safety of our citizens?

I refer you to a post at 09.47 today.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post
View Teddy Eagle's Profile Teddy Eagle Flag 05 Mar 20 12.14pm Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I will ignore your ridiculous assertions.

Your "solution" is completely impractical.

We don't restrict people's entry because of their religious belief, or lack of one. So far as I am aware we don't even ask them about this during the application process and even if we started to how would we know whether they told the truth, especially if the knew what the consequences would be for giving the "wrong" answer.

The only way would be to restrict immigration by specific countries but that would open up a huge box of worms. We would be in breach of international conventions which could result in us becoming a pariah state, cutting down our trading opportunities. Minorities within the targeted countries would suffer as would family members.

It wouldn't work and it won't be tried. It also isn't needed. The "indoctrinated" within the communities are obviously a problem but they are very much in the minority. We need to squeeze that minority to contain it's impact and gradually reduce it's number by educating the upcoming generations within our schools and institutions. Those who preach and teach hate need to be removed from society, without compromise.

It has zilch to do with idealism. It has only to do with seeking practical solutions that will actually, in time, work. Indeed your suggestions only exacerbate the problems by building resentment and encouraging the radicalisation of the impressionable.

Presumably in order to minimise radicalisation faith schools would need to be either closed or much more closely monitored. There are currently 184 Muslim Schools: one academy, 16 free schools, 12 voluntary aided, and 155 independent schools. These figures come from the Association of Muslim Schools.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post
View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 05 Mar 20 12.15pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

The majority of these foreign born rapists are from a larger group from rural pakistan and are poorly educated.


With the governments new immigration rules on restricting low skilled labour that larger group should not be coming.

If we continue to import them I would ask the government why as they have no discernable skill sets.

 


One more point

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post
View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 05 Mar 20 12.24pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Once again we get misrepresentation. This time on the future of Islam in the UK.

The predicted stats all come from the Pew Research, which was the starting point of the original comment. The Guardian report merely tries to interpret what they tell us. The stats were calculated about 10 years ago so could easily be found to need updating.

The upcoming census will certainly tell us more but no doubt some will be preparing their doomsday scenario predictions in advance of it.

I prefer to wait for objective, considered analysis by genuine experts before making any knee jerk comments.

Edited by Wisbech Eagle (05 Mar 2020 12.25pm)

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post
View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 05 Mar 20 12.27pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I will ignore your ridiculous assertions.

Your "solution" is completely impractical.

We don't restrict people's entry because of their religious belief, or lack of one. So far as I am aware we don't even ask them about this during the application process and even if we started to how would we know whether they told the truth, especially if the knew what the consequences would be for giving the "wrong" answer.

The only way would be to restrict immigration by specific countries but that would open up a huge box of worms. We would be in breach of international conventions which could result in us becoming a pariah state, cutting down our trading opportunities. Minorities within the targeted countries would suffer as would family members.

It wouldn't work and it won't be tried. It also isn't needed. The "indoctrinated" within the communities are obviously a problem but they are very much in the minority. We need to squeeze that minority to contain it's impact and gradually reduce it's number by educating the upcoming generations within our schools and institutions. Those who preach and teach hate need to be removed from society, without compromise.

It has zilch to do with idealism. It has only to do with seeking practical solutions that will actually, in time, work. Indeed your suggestions only exacerbate the problems by building resentment and encouraging the radicalisation of the impressionable.

There is a difference between deselecting people on religious grounds and selecting people who the government deems suitable for British citizenship.
No conventions need to be breached. Britain as a sovereign nation can deny entry to anyone it likes.

We need to lead by example rather than kowtow to other countries with equally stupid immigration policy.

Again you are more interested in protecting your precious ideals as are too many politicians and assorted apologists.

I present a practical solution that is just that. Nothing to do with race or religion but simply about probability and facts.
People like you will keep telling us it can't be done and meanwhile, these kinds of criminality and anti Western attitudes will multiply in Western countries.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post
View Belmont's Profile Belmont Flag 05 Mar 20 1.14pm Send a Private Message to Belmont Add Belmont as a friend

Originally posted by dannyboy1978

You are so nieve. Religion has everything to do with all of this and your PC correctness is what has brought on this whole situation.

These gangs operate as Muslims and rape girls for not being muslim.

Now if this was a one of then fine but as it's happening to hundreds of girls by hundreds of Muslims up and down the country then I see that as national problem by one religion. Add terrorism on top of that then it doesn't paint a picture of a tiny minority does it.

Why don't you think off the poor girls and not be such a PC peodophile sympathiser waiting for them to " catch up"

Disgusting

[Link]

Did anyone who's involved in the point scoring on this thread actually read this? She comes across a better person than I am certainly, the victims are the ones that should be heard in all this not those that think they know all the facts.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post
View Nicholas91's Profile Nicholas91 Flag Kent 05 Mar 20 1.15pm Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Thanks for the measured response.

I agree that many people, although not active believers, still regard themselves as Christian. I though think this is more to do with upbringing and culture than any real belief in a God. I myself treasure our Christian heritage and enjoy looking at churches and churchyards and will happily sing hymns at Christmas.

I think though you misunderstand me when you say that I insist that religion has no bearing on criminal activities. Although we must not make presumptions in any individual cases it does seem highly likely that in the cases of many of those involved in these "grooming gangs" that there is a shared religious and cultural heritage. Exactly what threads connect them is unknown to me. That particular teachers and leaders have planted ideas seems most likely, but that's an area for the experts to discover and deal with and not us.

My point is not, and never has been, that such threads don't exist. It is that to castigate a whole, and very diverse, religion bydescribing the perpetrators as "Islamic" or "Muslim" is both inaccurate and counter productive. It might be intuitive to do so but is it wise when we really need to try to separate these criminals from the very many good people within the communities from which they have sprung?

We need to destroy their hiding places and build bridges to the righteous rather than widen the divides. I think that is especially true of the women, particularly the ones educated here. All mothers would be horrified at these crimes and we need to give them the opportunity to be brave enough to express that horror effectively and help bring the criminals to justice.

I am no expert on Islam but from the little I do know there seem to be many different interpretations of the texts, just as there is with Christianity. What is certain is that everyone who lives in our country must abide by our laws and adhere to our standards, whatever their religious beliefs might say to them. So we can be tolerant about what people think, but not about what they do.

We mustn't therefore put any religion on trial. We put people who break the law on trial.

Thank you for the response.

I do agree with some of what you are saying and also I understand where you are coming from with your points.

I have highlighted in bold where I see some problems however.

Essentially, a lot of what I think you are expressing, whilst hypothetically valid in it's aspirations as an ideology, is folly.

The reliance on people to change their culture regarding an assortment on things ranging from treatment of others who are different, abiding by laws of a foreign land and most pertinently women will always be difficult and in this instance almost guaranteed as impossible.

For some context, I have a a few people of eastern/asian and islamic heritage, who sit in categories between colleagues and mates, in my life who I have quite openly discussed things of this sort with. I am no expert myself but would consider that somewhat close to the horses mouth. Almost all are children of immigrants if not immigrated young themselves.

I would certainly describe each of them as about as much of a Muslim as I am, hence why I have a relationship with them. I met one the other day who was eating a combined bacon and sausage baguette and had a roll up behind his ear as he was waiting for me. He's also a Reading FC season ticket holder despite being from East London (I can't remember why). They routinely mock their elders in their beliefs but more importantly attitudes towards the western world.

From my discussions with them, I would be quite sure in saying that true adherence to their religion, which is virtually a prerequisite of membership, does not provide any wiggle room to adapt to our society - hence why they do not do it almost to the point of abandoning it in all but name. I would add that they are all male as I have learned that any female who would attempt to do so would risk serious if not fatal consequences.

Therefore in essence, I would suggest it is perhaps even more offensive to take a stance of 'I will not persecute you because of your religion and respect what you believe but.... you will have to change some elements of it to fit in'. This is something I find quite ludicrous about current policy.

I respect your stance but I would argue it had no application whatsoever in a practical reality. I have opened up this conversation as I accept I will never have a 100% sure answer on this or any other problem so am open to any counter arguments but have never really found anything to change my mind.

 


Here's to you the famous red and blue.....

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post
View Midlands Eagle's Profile Midlands Eagle Flag 05 Mar 20 1.35pm Send a Private Message to Midlands Eagle Add Midlands Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Maybe rather than rely on the predictable interpretation of one regular poster here.......

You do make me smile as this is the third time this week that I have highlighted a quote of yours that is ostensibly referring to someone else but equally refers to you

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post
View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 05 Mar 20 3.07pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

Presumably in order to minimise radicalisation faith schools would need to be either closed or much more closely monitored. There are currently 184 Muslim Schools: one academy, 16 free schools, 12 voluntary aided, and 155 independent schools. These figures come from the Association of Muslim Schools.

I have long argued that faith schools are an anathema in today's society. Not just Islamic ones. All of them. Every child needs to be taught the standards and expectations of our society and, where practical, for them to mix with children from other communities.

Sharing the national curriculum is not enough. We need to remove not just religious teaching but religious influences from every school. The places where children are taught and experience religion ought to be only in their family, church, temple, mosque or synagogue. At school they need to experience alternative thinking so they can begin to think things through for themselves.

I would go further and ensure that all religious teaching and preaching be subject to periodical unannounced inspection which would only be actually applied if there was a suspicion that hate speech was present.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post
View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 05 Mar 20 3.12pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

You do make me smile as this is the third time this week that I have highlighted a quote of yours that is ostensibly referring to someone else but equally refers to you

Then I am glad that you find my posts amusing. It must make a change for you.

I don't, it hardly needs saying, agree with you that it applies to me but hey ho.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post
View Teddy Eagle's Profile Teddy Eagle Flag 05 Mar 20 3.17pm Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I have long argued that faith schools are an anathema in today's society. Not just Islamic ones. All of them. Every child needs to be taught the standards and expectations of our society and, where practical, for them to mix with children from other communities.

Sharing the national curriculum is not enough. We need to remove not just religious teaching but religious influences from every school. The places where children are taught and experience religion ought to be only in their family, church, temple, mosque or synagogue. At school they need to experience alternative thinking so they can begin to think things through for themselves.

I would go further and ensure that all religious teaching and preaching be subject to periodical unannounced inspection which would only be actually applied if there was a suspicion that hate speech was present.

Yes, I agree with you. It would be interesting to see what happened to religion if children werenít exposed to its tenets at all. Anyone of sixteen or older can make their own decisions of course itís not likely to happen.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post

Topic Locked

Page 148 of 152 < 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 >

Previous Topic | Next Topic

You are here: Home > Message Board > News & Politics > Topic