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Why is this a BBC top story? (LOCKED)

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View dannyboy1978's Profile dannyboy1978 Flag 05 Mar 20 6.49am Send a Private Message to dannyboy1978 Add dannyboy1978 as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

You need to read it again because that's not what I said.

My argument is that using religion as a descriptive term is not only inaccurate but counter productive.

You make assumptions about these criminals religious beliefs and extrapolate your conclusions from them.

However religion won't be on any charge sheet and won't be part of anything the Police will investigate. Religion is not on trial. Only the evil actions are. What caused them is for sociologists to ponder and for governments to take remedial action to correct.

If you want to put all religion on trial then I will happily join you as I think it is the root cause of much suffering and has been throughout history.

As we have progressed We have largely become a nation of non believers. Unfortunately some of our less sophisticated brethren have some catching up to do. They will. It's only when, not if.

You are so nieve. Religion has everything to do with all of this and your PC correctness is what has brought on this whole situation.

These gangs operate as Muslims and rape girls for not being muslim.

Now if this was a one of then fine but as it's happening to hundreds of girls by hundreds of Muslims up and down the country then I see that as national problem by one religion. Add terrorism on top of that then it doesn't paint a picture of a tiny minority does it.

Why don't you think off the poor girls and not be such a PC peodophile sympathiser waiting for them to " catch up"

Disgusting

[Link]

 

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View Nicholas91's Profile Nicholas91 Flag Kent 05 Mar 20 9.16am Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

You need to read it again because that's not what I said.

My argument is that using religion as a descriptive term is not only inaccurate but counter productive.

You make assumptions about these criminals religious beliefs and extrapolate your conclusions from them.

However religion won't be on any charge sheet and won't be part of anything the Police will investigate. Religion is not on trial. Only the evil actions are. What caused them is for sociologists to ponder and for governments to take remedial action to correct.

If you want to put all religion on trial then I will happily join you as I think it is the root cause of much suffering and has been throughout history.

As we have progressed We have largely become a nation of non believers. Unfortunately some of our less sophisticated brethren have some catching up to do. They will. It's only when, not if.

Genuinely asking a question here.

I very rarely comment on these types of threads but I am intrigued by some of those who demonstrate a commitment to what I will call political correctness.

I agree with your statement regarding us becoming a nation of largely non-believers but would perhaps rather articulate it that as society, and more importantly technology, has progressed, people have moved further away from religious doctrines and practice although they might still identify with a moniker of sorts e.g. "I am a Christian".

What I am struggling with is your insistence here that religion has no bearing on some particular criminal activities? You quite clearly seem to be 'anti-religion' which I certainly have some sympathy with but yet seem to deny that despicable acts which have been perpetrated by immigrants, who belong to a religion that requires a high degree of submission to it's doctrines which date back over a thousand years, has nothing to do with this?

Whilst I am keen for this not to be palmed off as a 'far right rant', I am still baffled as to how people can preach tolerance for these people and this religion whilst espousing liberal beliefs, it seems very much a direct contradiction and I believe any knowledge of this religion would certainly give credence to link the doctrines and the crimes.

 


Here's to you the famous red and blue.....

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 05 Mar 20 9.47am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world, it has 1.6 billion followers. All this talk about atheism and people gradually not believing is like a blind man talking about hieroglyphics.

The Pew Research Center estimates that in the second half of 21st century, the number of Muslims will have surpassed the number of Christians.

What this 'person' doesn't seem to understand is that religion is coming into Europe, it isn't going to disappear and it isn't going to secularize as a majority......Look at Turkey for what's going to happen unchecked.

The words, 'useful idiot' come to mind.....but in truth we know WE is only here for the negative attention.

 

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View cpfc_chap's Profile cpfc_chap Flag koh samui 05 Mar 20 10.18am Send a Private Message to cpfc_chap Add cpfc_chap as a friend

[Link]

 

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View Midlands Eagle's Profile Midlands Eagle Flag 05 Mar 20 10.29am Send a Private Message to Midlands Eagle Add Midlands Eagle as a friend

For those that don't follow links the following quote is pertinent:-

New research by Quilliam, authored by Haras Rafiq and myself, on the link between grooming gangs and offender ethnicity has found that 84% of child sexual exploitation offenders who operate in gangs or groups are ‘Asian’. This is in sharp contrast to only 7% Asians in the total UK population.

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 05 Mar 20 10.39am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Nicholas91

Genuinely asking a question here.

I very rarely comment on these types of threads but I am intrigued by some of those who demonstrate a commitment to what I will call political correctness.

I agree with your statement regarding us becoming a nation of largely non-believers but would perhaps rather articulate it that as society, and more importantly technology, has progressed, people have moved further away from religious doctrines and practice although they might still identify with a moniker of sorts e.g. "I am a Christian".

What I am struggling with is your insistence here that religion has no bearing on some particular criminal activities? You quite clearly seem to be 'anti-religion' which I certainly have some sympathy with but yet seem to deny that despicable acts which have been perpetrated by immigrants, who belong to a religion that requires a high degree of submission to it's doctrines which date back over a thousand years, has nothing to do with this?

Whilst I am keen for this not to be palmed off as a 'far right rant', I am still baffled as to how people can preach tolerance for these people and this religion whilst espousing liberal beliefs, it seems very much a direct contradiction and I believe any knowledge of this religion would certainly give credence to link the doctrines and the crimes.

Thanks for the measured response.

I agree that many people, although not active believers, still regard themselves as Christian. I though think this is more to do with upbringing and culture than any real belief in a God. I myself treasure our Christian heritage and enjoy looking at churches and churchyards and will happily sing hymns at Christmas.

I think though you misunderstand me when you say that I insist that religion has no bearing on criminal activities. Although we must not make presumptions in any individual cases it does seem highly likely that in the cases of many of those involved in these "grooming gangs" that there is a shared religious and cultural heritage. Exactly what threads connect them is unknown to me. That particular teachers and leaders have planted ideas seems most likely, but that's an area for the experts to discover and deal with and not us.

My point is not, and never has been, that such threads don't exist. It is that to castigate a whole, and very diverse, religion by describing the perpetrators as "Islamic" or "Muslim" is both inaccurate and counter productive. It might be intuitive to do so but is it wise when we really need to try to separate these criminals from the very many good people within the communities from which they have sprung?

We need to destroy their hiding places and build bridges to the righteous rather than widen the divides. I think that is especially true of the women, particularly the ones educated here. All mothers would be horrified at these crimes and we need to give them the opportunity to be brave enough to express that horror effectively and help bring the criminals to justice.

I am no expert on Islam but from the little I do know there seem to be many different interpretations of the texts, just as there is with Christianity. What is certain is that everyone who lives in our country must abide by our laws and adhere to our standards, whatever their religious beliefs might say to them. So we can be tolerant about what people think, but not about what they do.

We mustn't therefore put any religion on trial. We put people who break the law on trial.

 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 05 Mar 20 10.39am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

For those that don't follow links the following quote is pertinent:-

New research by Quilliam, authored by Haras Rafiq and myself, on the link between grooming gangs and offender ethnicity has found that 84% of child sexual exploitation offenders who operate in gangs or groups are ‘Asian’. This is in sharp contrast to only 7% Asians in the total UK population.

Whatever happened to "ignorance of the law is not a justification" although apparently it was in this case.

""In January 2013, Nottingham Crown Court saw the disturbing case of Adil Rashid who was spared jail after he raped a 13-year-old girl because he claimed that his Islamic education had left him “ignorant of British law”. Rashid admitted he had sex with the girl, saying he had been “tempted by her” after they met online. The 18-year-old attended a taxpayer-funded madrassah in Birmingham, where boys and girls were taught in segregated classes. Rashid said he was taught that “women are no more worthy than a lollipop that has been dropped on the ground”. ""

 


One more point

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 05 Mar 20 10.49am Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
How is that practical? Apart from it not being so it would have many other consequences, none of which would be in our ultimate interests. Family members are allowed to join. It would not either put a stop to the problem. The perpetrators are here. Many are by now British citizens either by birth or naturalisation. Not all those involved seem to have a connection to pakistan. The latest convictions were of Kurdish men. My solution would be to work hard to educate and communicate and never take no for an answer. If people choose to live here then they must accept our standards so no compromises. If they don't then they lose their freedom until they do.



You are providing me with the perfect excuse to say that all Muslim immigration should be halted.

You think that these lifetime indoctrinated people can be educated? Over how long? And they keep coming wave after wave so this problem will be endless.
No. We have to put a halt to this now by limiting the number of Muslims in this country. That is the only answer that ultimately solves the problem. Those here already will grow old and they will eventually have fewer children.

You don't like that solution because secretly, you consider your rainbow world ideals more important than the welfare of a few thousand young British girls.

Own it Wisbech. Tell the truth for a change.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (05 Mar 2020 10.50am)

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 05 Mar 20 11.14am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Maybe rather than rely on the predictable interpretation of one regular poster here on what the Pew Research report on the future Muslim population means you should perhaps read it yourself. Look here:-

[Link]

It's long and detailed so maybe take a look at this too as to what it doesn't say:-

[Link]

Then for a view from the Islamic world itself take a look here on what it could mean in the UK:-

[Link]

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 05 Mar 20 11.19am Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Maybe rather than rely on the predictable interpretation of one regular poster here on what the Pew Research report on the future Muslim population means you should perhaps read it yourself. Look here:-

[Link]

It's long and detailed so maybe take a look at this too as to what it doesn't say:-

[Link]

Then for a view from the Islamic world itself take a look here on what it could mean in the UK:-

[Link]

What had this to do with rapists and how to ensure the future safety of our citizens?

 

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag Chatham 05 Mar 20 11.30am Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Thanks for the measured response.

I agree that many people, although not active believers, still regard themselves as Christian. I though think this is more to do with upbringing and culture than any real belief in a God. I myself treasure our Christian heritage and enjoy looking at churches and churchyards and will happily sing hymns at Christmas.

I think though you misunderstand me when you say that I insist that religion has no bearing on criminal activities. Although we must not make presumptions in any individual cases it does seem highly likely that in the cases of many of those involved in these "grooming gangs" that there is a shared religious and cultural heritage. Exactly what threads connect them is unknown to me. That particular teachers and leaders have planted ideas seems most likely, but that's an area for the experts to discover and deal with and not us.

My point is not, and never has been, that such threads don't exist. It is that to castigate a whole, and very diverse, religion by describing the perpetrators as "Islamic" or "Muslim" is both inaccurate and counter productive. It might be intuitive to do so but is it wise when we really need to try to separate these criminals from the very many good people within the communities from which they have sprung?

We need to destroy their hiding places and build bridges to the righteous rather than widen the divides. I think that is especially true of the women, particularly the ones educated here. All mothers would be horrified at these crimes and we need to give them the opportunity to be brave enough to express that horror effectively and help bring the criminals to justice.

I am no expert on Islam but from the little I do know there seem to be many different interpretations of the texts, just as there is with Christianity. What is certain is that everyone who lives in our country must abide by our laws and adhere to our standards, whatever their religious beliefs might say to them. So we can be tolerant about what people think, but not about what they do.

We mustn't therefore put any religion on trial. We put people who break the law on trial.

In our country!
So they are ok to rape little girls elsewhere on the planet as long as not in this country.

Leaders havent planted ideas.
That s***ty book they live by did that and not many mothers would be horrified or they would have reported what they know about grooming.
They have an opportunity any given day but choose not to.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 05 Mar 20 11.43am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

The links WE provides sum him up entirely.

I read the second 'Guardian' link (remember this is a guy who called himself a 'one nation conservative)......One of the great things is that it makes a projection that we can roughly gauge on its accuracy next year.

It said this, 'The number of Muslims in the UK is projected to almost double from 2.9 million in 2010 to 5.6 million in 2030. By 2030, Muslims are expected to make up 8.2% of the UK's population, up from 4.6% in 2010.'

Now the great thing is that we get the 2021 census next year and so we can judge these projections against that....According to these stats the population should only be at 4.2 or 4.3 million.

I rather suspect that like the person who linked to them.....these stats are not only inaccurate but they are false.

Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Mar 2020 11.46am)

 

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