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July 11 2020 2.48am

Why is this a BBC top story? (LOCKED)

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 05 Mar 20 10.17pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly

So because the (non-white) criminals targeted white girls, there was no racist aspect added to the sentences ?

It just seems odd, to me.

Edited by Forest Hillbilly (05 Mar 2020 7.28pm)

You just know how it would go in reverse.

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 05 Mar 20 10.32pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

You are a disingenuous old apologist and you can argue round in circles as much as you like.
You would rather sit around a table with a load of other dithering old men finding ways to avoid doing anything about our growing immigration crime crisis than take some positive action.

You are an appeaser. The Neville Chamberlin of HOL.

Of course I am not! That's a really crazy assertion. Why don't you read my post at 7.15 above which will quickly disprove it.

It's strange because when I read the comments here from the usual bunch it reminds me pretty closely of your own description of me.

You all seem like a bunch of old regressives, locked in a time warp and longing for a time past which is never coming back.

It's like watching a tea dance from the 1950s with guys in blazers doing the military two step. A simple dance which even those with two right feet can master. One that goes round and round in circles and always ends up where it started.

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 05 Mar 20 10.46pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

Might be true.
Ffs they are asian grooming gangs.
Have you read the news reports on the convictions with names and pictures.
Doesnt need Poirot to see a connection.
Clearly you cannot bring yourself to admit that is the case.
You can fool some of the people some of the time........ etc etc.

Asia isn't responsible. Neither is Islam.

People are.

We don't need to muddy the water by firing at the wrong targets.

Unless, of course, your real motivation is that of the Islamophobe.

Understanding the backgrounds, and motivations of, the perpetrators is an essential part of the way our authorities will try to move things forward.

Throwing mud only makes their task more difficult. It might sell copies of the Mail, Express and Sun though. Really worthwhile result.

 

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View Teddy Eagle's Profile Teddy Eagle Flag 05 Mar 20 11.21pm Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Asia isn't responsible. Neither is Islam.

People are.

We don't need to muddy the water by firing at the wrong targets.

Unless, of course, your real motivation is that of the Islamophobe.

Understanding the backgrounds, and motivations of, the perpetrators is an essential part of the way our authorities will try to move things forward.

Throwing mud only makes their task more difficult. It might sell copies of the Mail, Express and Sun though. Really worthwhile result.

[Link]

Phobia? Seems quite reasonable to be phobic under these circumstances.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 05 Mar 20 11.34pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Someone who tells us that they don't know much about Islam and that he won't comment on the religion.....he then tells us that Islam isn't connected to grooming gangs.....even though the stats just contradict him.

This man lays himself out bare everytime.

There are definitely Islamic interpretations that promote the idea that non Muslims can be treated as second class citizens in set circumstances and this guy is part of promoting lies to people.... Anyone with eyes can see this behaviour in many Islamic countries and of course the extreme version with Islamic state.

This is not the same as saying that if you are Islamic you're going to support or be connected to this....Indeed, where WE has tried to suggest this is what is being said he is deliberately misrepresenting the argument. It should be obvious to most that the majority of Muslims are against this...However, this is where the problems is and It's such a dishonest and disingenuous way to approach what are terrible crimes.

It's an insult to the victims...which is ongoing by the way, and an insult to the truth.


Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Mar 2020 11.41pm)

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 05 Mar 20 11.37pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

[Link]

Phobia? Seems quite reasonable to be phobic under these circumstances.

Groominggangphobia makes some sense.

 

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View Teddy Eagle's Profile Teddy Eagle Flag 05 Mar 20 11.48pm Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Groominggangphobia makes some sense.

It would if the two were unconnected.

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 06 Mar 20 12.05am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend


More blatant misrepresentation.

At no point have I denied that many members of the grooming gangs seem to have originated from within communities which have some connections to the Islamic faith. My point isn't about that. It is about all the other members of the Islamic communities and whether it is wise to use the common epithets to describe the gangs as if to do so fails to offer any benefit, then why do it?

That some interpretations of Islam are unpleasant and tend to denigrate non believers is undeniable. I have encountered it myself often enough to know it's true. It isn't though the point, which is that it is only some which do and, whilst some don't, we ought not to refer to the whole as being culpable. We need to isolate the evil and encourage the good. It isn't rocket science.

What is really disingenuous is to believe that because it might be obvious to some that the majority of Muslims are against this, that this is obvious to all, or even most, people when it clearly isn't. You have only to read some of the comments here to know that it is untrue. Islamophobia is real and it is being encouraged by the headline writers in the gutter press and the likes of "Robinson".

That is where the insults to the victims arise for doing so doesn't help them in any way. Indeed it just makes things worse.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 06 Mar 20 12.21am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Where has it been said that the majority of Muslims are for grooming gangs?

It hasn't....the poster who talks about misrepresentation does little else....You just contrive what you want.

What he wants to do is tell others what they should think and say.

Also the incredible hubris of thinking that Islam is going to change even one inch because of what atheists and secularists promote is just self delusion on a significant scale. The very religion itself is set up to avoid that.

With the percentage that take these interpretations you aren't going to change jack.....It's a bit like you thinking that waffling your ideology on here is going to change how the dissident right think. It's incredible hubris. It doesn't, if anything all you achieve is remind us of what we are against.....and the types of people who gave us these problems and then seek to lie and cover them up.

Edited by Stirlingsays (06 Mar 2020 12.24am)

 

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View becky's Profile becky Flag over the moon 06 Mar 20 7.08am Send a Private Message to becky Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add becky as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

We are largely on the same page.

I have no sympathies for Islam either, despite the frequent attempt by the Islamophobes to suggest the opposite. I regard all religious belief as past it's time and an encumbrance to a peaceful world. Those who try to justify criminal activity because of a belief need to be stopped and we must insist that teaching that supports it ceases too. I would close all faith based schools and teach British values to all children. No compromises. No home schooling for religious reasons.

Demanding that all religious leaders acknowledge the need to adhere to British values and join us in trying to eradicate evil seems sensible to me. There must be ways to apply pressure to achieve this.

Putting Islam "on trial" by demanding that it's teachers comply with our expectations (alongside those of every other religion) is fine with me.

My primary focus in these long exchanges is whether continuing to describe the criminal grooming gangs as "Muslim", "Asian" or "Islamic" is actually beneficial to making things better. It certainly helps the Islamophobes feel better but does it help the victims of the crimes or the Police who are trying to find the criminals and bring them to justice? Just because something might be true doesn't mean it is wise to keep on bringing it up.

My view is unless a positive impact can be proved then we ought not do it, even if not to do so has a marginal effect.


Presumably then, that would have to also include all the Church of England schools, who were and remain the very foundation of free education in this country, and were teaching our children 'British values' before Parliament even existed in this country.

Baby & bathwater springs to mind.

 


A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag Chatham 06 Mar 20 9.17am Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle


More blatant misrepresentation.

At no point have I denied that many members of the grooming gangs seem to have originated from within communities which have some connections to the Islamic faith. My point isn't about that. It is about all the other members of the Islamic communities and whether it is wise to use the common epithets to describe the gangs as if to do so fails to offer any benefit, then why do it?

That some interpretations of Islam are unpleasant and tend to denigrate non believers is undeniable. I have encountered it myself often enough to know it's true. It isn't though the point, which is that it is only some which do and, whilst some don't, we ought not to refer to the whole as being culpable. We need to isolate the evil and encourage the good. It isn't rocket science.

What is really disingenuous is to believe that because it might be obvious to some that the majority of Muslims are against this, that this is obvious to all, or even most, people when it clearly isn't. You have only to read some of the comments here to know that it is untrue. Islamophobia is real and it is being encouraged by the headline writers in the gutter press and the likes of "Robinson".

That is where the insults to the victims arise for doing so doesn't help them in any way. Indeed it just makes things worse.

Seem to have originated from blah blah
ha ha wissie.
The gift that keeps on giving.

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 06 Mar 20 9.32am Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Of course I am not! That's a really crazy assertion. Why don't you read my post at 7.15 above which will quickly disprove it.

It's strange because when I read the comments here from the usual bunch it reminds me pretty closely of your own description of me.

You all seem like a bunch of old regressives, locked in a time warp and longing for a time past which is never coming back.

It's like watching a tea dance from the 1950s with guys in blazers doing the military two step. A simple dance which even those with two right feet can master. One that goes round and round in circles and always ends up where it started.

You want to close all faith schools but then you defend Islamic teaching. You also refuse to accept the link between Muslims and mass rape of Europeans.
You think that hiding the truth was in the public interest.
Despite the scale of these crimes, you are happy to see thousands upon thousands more Muslims enter this country, rapidly turning this country Muslim because you think that our culture will eventually 'educate' them.

You are happy to see this nation's citizens and their culture replaced and even deny any of it is happening because it fits with your world view.

This all sounds like the insane wittering of a delusional old liberal.

I say to hell with your world view. It's time to wake up and reject your kind of sentiment and act now so that our children's children can live in a Britain that remotely resembles the one that people worked, fought and died for.
Not a crime ridden, overcrowded, under resourced, unsafe Englistan.

 

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