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May 26 2022 3.10pm

new migrant crisis

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 18 Mar 22 9.58am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

I sympathise with Ukrainian refugees but as I have previously predicted, the endless stream of refugees and migrants will be increasing decade by decade as war, lack of resources and climate change worsens.

As an island nation, we have to protect ourselves from the inevitable consequences that the likes of Wisbech is in denial about.
Despite the revisionists, we know that the fall of Rome and Egypt were largely down to migration caused by people being displaced or seeking prosperity.

We will go the same way without a doubt.

I somehow doubt whether replying is worth the effort as when this hobby horse is mounted its blinkers ensure it only ever looks one way.

No consequences are ever inevitable in a changing world where the future remains unknown. Whilst we all recognise the problems caused by unplanned, illegal migration, we also accept that the UK honours its commitment to international law and conventions. We aren't Russia.

There are no easy, or short term answers. If there were, they would have been found. Those that think we "just send them back" etc etc, are being simplistic. This requires an international response involving all the countries through which these people travel, tackling the people smuggling gangs at source, trying to both eliminate the security and economic motivations which drive people to do this, alongside establishing a legal way to manage those who have genuine reasons, in their own countries.

That response is happening, but was never going to be easy to establish with so many competing elements. Brexit has made it much harder, as this is something which would be more attainable if we had remained a member of the EU.

We are always going to be the destination of choice for many, simply because English is the only other language they have any knowledge of.

I certainly don't "know" that the fall of Rome was largely down to migration! It's the first time I have heard such a theory! There was a mix of reasons. There was migration, but it was the way the migrants were treated that contributed to the downfall, and not the migration itself. Maybe that's the lesson!

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View PalazioVecchio's Profile PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 18 Mar 22 11.15am Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I somehow doubt whether replying is worth the effort as when this hobby horse is mounted its blinkers ensure it only ever looks one way.

No consequences are ever inevitable in a changing world where the future remains unknown. Whilst we all recognise the problems caused by unplanned, illegal migration, we also accept that the UK honours its commitment to international law and conventions. We aren't Russia.

There are no easy, or short term answers. If there were, they would have been found. Those that think we "just send them back" etc etc, are being simplistic. This requires an international response involving all the countries through which these people travel, tackling the people smuggling gangs at source, trying to both eliminate the security and economic motivations which drive people to do this, alongside establishing a legal way to manage those who have genuine reasons, in their own countries.

That response is happening, but was never going to be easy to establish with so many competing elements. Brexit has made it much harder, as this is something which would be more attainable if we had remained a member of the EU.

We are always going to be the destination of choice for many, simply because English is the only other language they have any knowledge of.

I certainly don't "know" that the fall of Rome was largely down to migration! It's the first time I have heard such a theory! There was a mix of reasons. There was migration, but it was the way the migrants were treated that contributed to the downfall, and not the migration itself. Maybe that's the lesson!

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Western Rome fell cos all the migrants were let onto Roman Territory. When a Barbarian army tried to siege the defences, the Barbarians on the inside simply threw open the gates to their buddies.

They should have been kept on the far side of the Danube & Rhine....as was always the policy of successful Caesars.

Eastern Rome ( Byzantium) fell in 1453 cos Islam had undermined the whole shebang. Across all its territory, Islam held sway. Islam had no allegiance to the Capital - and seemed to have Sharia Courts running in parallel to Roman Law.

Edited by PalazioVecchio (18 Mar 2022 11.30am)

 


7 points from Manchester this season

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 23 Mar 22 4.21pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

400 migrants in 24 hours.

Wisbech's brave new world.


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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 23 Mar 22 4.34pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

400 migrants in 24 hours.

Wisbech's brave new world.


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And the main picture they give is the baby. No agenda there.

 


I used to put the manager's name in front of Red and Blue but got fed up with changing it. If someone cool becomes our manager then maybe..

Red and Blue Army!

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 23 Mar 22 4.36pm Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Scary numbers

 

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View Spiderman's Profile Spiderman Flag Horsham 23 Mar 22 5.13pm Send a Private Message to Spiderman Add Spiderman as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

400 migrants in 24 hours.

Wisbech's brave new world.


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They have arriving in these numbers every day for weeks, nothing new. No political will from any party to tackle it. Not a Ukrainian in sight

 

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View Palace Old Geezer's Profile Palace Old Geezer Online Flag Midhurst 23 Mar 22 5.47pm Send a Private Message to Palace Old Geezer Add Palace Old Geezer as a friend

Of course there are no Ukranians....yet. These folk are the benefit seekers paying gangsters in France to get here. Mostly young men as Palazio pointed out some months ago.

We are paying £4m per day to put them up in comfy hotels. This country simply cannot cope with this continuous influx of illegal immigrants. Our NHS struggles to look after the indigenous population without the additional burden of incomers.

Whether you like it or not Wisbech, surely, something, somewhere is very wrong to allow this to happen. Australia has the right idea to turn them back, virtually none have entered there since 2013. And Australia is a big country with loads of space and the UK is minute in comparison and stuffed to the rafters already.

It's no longer a crisis, it's more like a bloomin' emergency!

 


Dad and I watched games standing on the muddy slope of the Holmesdale Road end. He cheered and I rattled.

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 23 Mar 22 8.33pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

400 migrants in 24 hours.

Wisbech's brave new world.


[Link]

Of course, it isn't. I no more want illegal immigration than anyone else, and despise the people smugglers who profiteer out of misery.

I just recognise that there are no quick or easy solutions. We need to work with our neighbours to cut off the sources of the problems. Unless, and until we do, this will get worse, not better.

Anyone who boards a small boat to try to cross an unknown stretch of sea when they are thousands of miles from home, to try to get to an unknown country, where an uncertain future awaits them, has got to be pretty desperate.

Surely showing some compassion for the desperate ought not be beyond any of us?

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 23 Mar 22 8.41pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Of course, it isn't. I no more want illegal immigration than anyone else, and despise the people smugglers who profiteer out of misery.

I just recognise that there are no quick or easy solutions. We need to work with our neighbours to cut off the sources of the problems. Unless, and until we do, this will get worse, not better.

Anyone who boards a small boat to try to cross an unknown stretch of sea when they are thousands of miles from home, to try to get to an unknown country, where an uncertain future awaits them, has got to be pretty desperate.

Surely showing some compassion for the desperate ought not be beyond any of us?

Shut up. My concern is for this country. We can't afford this kind of charity for everyone who fancies a new life in Britain.

Don't try and kid me that all these people are fleeing danger.
Frankly, I don't care if they are. They are coming here illegally and will continue to come in greater numbers. We have to protect ourselves.

 

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View nead1's Profile nead1 Flag 23 Mar 22 9.43pm Send a Private Message to nead1 Add nead1 as a friend

Its clearly beyond this poster and has always been from what I have seen/read. Maybe put it down to intemperate use of language to give him the benefit of any doubt especially as he is far from alone on this site.
It always amazes me that Palace as a club have such a diverse mix of players/management and clearly embrace D&I from every perspective as a key element of their culture. The same clearly doesn't apply to some of the fan base.

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 23 Mar 22 9.48pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Shut up. My concern is for this country. We can't afford this kind of charity for everyone who fancies a new life in Britain.

Don't try and kid me that all these people are fleeing danger.
Frankly, I don't care if they are. They are coming here illegally and will continue to come in greater numbers. We have to protect ourselves.

We aren't actually showing anyone any charity!

We are meeting internationally agreed conventions. I can only imagine what the EU's response would be if we did not.

We cannot patrol every inch of coastline. Nor can we legally just return people to their countries of origin, if they have a legitimate claim to refugee status. That needs to be established, and that takes time and resources.

You might wish it otherwise, but we are a law-abiding country who accepts our responsibilities.

We have no other choice but to work with others to solve this. We cannot do this on our own. We cannot just set up an offshore processing centre and then put people back on boats to whence they came.

You won't like being told this, but Brexit has made solving this much harder.

If people aren't refugees, then they certainly ought to be returned. Illegal economic migration cannot be accepted. The problem is, unhappily, despite your cynicism, it appears that most are.

It's really easy to look at this and criticise. We can all do that. It's like shooting fish in a barrel. Finding impractical solutions is also easy. It's much harder to find practical, workable solutions. So far, no-one has. Other than co-operation and attacking the gangs at source.

 

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View Spiderman's Profile Spiderman Flag Horsham 24 Mar 22 6.18am Send a Private Message to Spiderman Add Spiderman as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

We aren't actually showing anyone any charity!

We are meeting internationally agreed conventions. I can only imagine what the EU's response would be if we did not.

We cannot patrol every inch of coastline. Nor can we legally just return people to their countries of origin, if they have a legitimate claim to refugee status. That needs to be established, and that takes time and resources.

You might wish it otherwise, but we are a law-abiding country who accepts our responsibilities.

We have no other choice but to work with others to solve this. We cannot do this on our own. We cannot just set up an offshore processing centre and then put people back on boats to whence they came.

You won't like being told this, but Brexit has made solving this much harder.

If people aren't refugees, then they certainly ought to be returned. Illegal economic migration cannot be accepted. The problem is, unhappily, despite your cynicism, it appears that most are.

It's really easy to look at this and criticise. We can all do that. It's like shooting fish in a barrel. Finding impractical solutions is also easy. It's much harder to find practical, workable solutions. So far, no-one has. Other than co-operation and attacking the gangs at source.

I do not want to get embroiled in this debate anymore. My parting comment, using my 30+ years of experience is regarding Wissie’s penultimate paragraph, the first sentence is correct, the second is totally wrong. The vast majority crossing the Channel are economic migrants but unfortunately arriving with no documentation makes it impossible to remove them.
Although the Dublin Convention cannot be applied now, it very rarely assisted in removing people ( too complicated to go into). Years ago, Italy were not entertaining asylum applications from illegal immigrants, they served them with papers instructing them to leave Italy within 7 days. Not correct under any convention so the EU are not blameless nor do they always comply with international conventions

 

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