HOLS obsession with racism?
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 Wisbech Eagle  Truro Cornwall 16 Feb 19 4.23pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Well there goes your credibility. You are just blowing hot air. You live in a fantasy and I wish you luck with it. My credibility with people who think like you is unimportant. Fixed minds don't change but their set opinions can reveal the paucity of their arguments to others. Ms Soubry's credibility will be judged when the dust settles and not before. I don't deal in fantasy.I deal in the harsh reality of what is obvious to those with their eyes and ears open and looking outwards and forward and not inwards and back.
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PalazioVecchio  south pole 16 Feb 19 4.38pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Which whilst true is not relevant to Brexit. This is an almost unique situation in which the benefit of hindsight can be harnessed to pull the country back from the brink, if that is indeed what the country now wants. The only way to find that out is to ask them. keep asking them to vote until you get the answer you want to hear ? sorry mate. the people have already spoken. Brexit is brexit. and if the whole EU dies as a result, good.
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| Stirlingsays Online 16 Feb 19 5.04pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
My credibility with people who think like you is unimportant. Fixed minds don't change but their set opinions can reveal the paucity of their arguments to others. Ms Soubry's credibility will be judged when the dust settles and not before. I don't deal in fantasy.I deal in the harsh reality of what is obvious to those with their eyes and ears open and looking outwards and forward and not inwards and back. You have certainly revealed your arguments and in turn had them exposed......Calling yourself a 'Traditional Tory Voter' and then calling yourself a 'Social Democrat' and talking positivity about feminism and multiculturalism and implying racism.....yeah real traditional Tory. You are a fantasist in how you just deny answers and forge on regardless dancing on pins as you go. Like you dancing around the fact that 7 out of 10 Tory seats voted out....trying to obfuscate by mudding what 'out' means.....yet if they had voted 'remain'....you wouldn't have stated ....well, what type of 'remain' were they saying? I'm ok with you believing what you want, you're a minority view and your side lost. That's about the extent of it. In an earlier post you wrote, ' I strongly support the principle of meritocracy, which is only another way of saying that you support equality.' Please explain this statement to me. Meritocracy and equality are unrelated to each other and one has to be compromised in some fashion for the other to exist. Edited by Stirlingsays (16 Feb 2019 5.06pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 16 Feb 19 6.38pm |
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Originally posted by PalazioVecchio
keep asking them to vote until you get the answer you want to hear ? sorry mate. the people have already spoken. Brexit is brexit. and if the whole EU dies as a result, good. That's the excuse of the hardline Brexiteer who is scared to face the possibility that their opinion might not now be the majority one. If it is what have you to be worried about? If it isn't why force the country to do something it doesn't want to do? Nothing in politics is ever set in stone. There is always another voting opportunity to reverse things. We could always apply to rejoin but why wait if it could be established now that in hindsight the people have changed their minds? It's rare that we have this opportunity so we should take it. So this "Brexit is Brexit" argument is a very weak one. The sort only used by those who have run out of convincing ones.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 16 Feb 19 7.22pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
You have certainly revealed your arguments and in turn had them exposed......Calling yourself a 'Traditional Tory Voter' and then calling yourself a 'Social Democrat' and talking positivity about feminism and multiculturalism. Are you for real? The vast majority of those who vote Tory are also social democratic in outlook (note the lower case), understand feminism (especially the 50% who are women) and multiculturalism. Not perhaps the actual membership, which currently stands at 124,000, but they are not part of this equation. 13.5 million people voted Tory at the last election and it's them that I am discussing. Most people in the UK are middle of the road in their opinions and many float between the parties, choosing whichever seems best able to serve for the years ahead. I don't believe that there are very many who are either hard right, or hard left. The evidence for that claim can be seen in the failure of UKIP to ever make much progress at the ballot box and of the general distaste for Corbyn. So my description of myself is entirely accurate. I am a typical Tory voter. Not a typical party member, just a typical Tory voter.
That you don't like putting facts in context and considering other facts isn't my fault but it doesn't change the truth. Just because 7 out of 10 Tory seats voted to leave cannot be extended to mean that those who voted to leave all share the hardline approach of the ERG/UKIP grouping. For many it was always a borderline decision and, given all that has happened since I suspect that many others have reconsidered. I don't argue that there are some who share their views, you are the proof of that, but I suspect it is a much, much lower percentage among the general population than among the MPs. I'm ok with you believing what you want, you're a minority view and your side lost. Ah, the old "you lost" argument. Battles are won and lost but wars continue until a final victory. As to "my" side being a minority, we were but are "we" now?
No they aren't. It seems self evident to me that for a meritocracy to work properly there needs to be equality of opportunity. Edited by Wisbech Eagle (16 Feb 2019 7.24pm)
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| PalazioVecchio south pole 16 Feb 19 7.46pm |
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Remoaners who lost the vote and refuse to accept a democratic majority of 1.5 Million are a bit pathetic.
it implies that the hardworking and talented get to keep the fruits of their labour. it also implies that lazy losers will be allowed to fail and not given a ton of freebies for their lack of efforts. This is a racially neutral policy. The financial success of Tiger Woods should not be given to some white trailer trash to spend on booze....and racially the vice-versa is also implicit. Edited by PalazioVecchio (16 Feb 2019 7.54pm)
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 16 Feb 19 8.38pm |
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Remoaners who lost the vote and refuse to accept a democratic majority of 1.5 Million are a bit pathetic. Why do you think that those who voted remain don't accept the vote? I do and I think most do. That though doesn't mean that you simply lie down and accept the consequences of something you believe to be a profound mistake. Referendums are not part of our democracy and I object to them being treated as decisive. That attitude would apply whatever the result. It was Parliament's commitment to respect it that I take issue with and want them to reverse. That's their job.
it implies that the hardworking and talented get to keep the fruits of their labour. It does no such thing. It simply says that merit and not anything is what governs an individual's opportunities. Who gets to profit from their success is another matter entirely. it also implies that lazy losers will be allowed to fail and not given a ton of freebies for their lack of efforts. No it doesn't. It says nothing about it. This is a racially neutral policy. Of course it is. Merit is blind to everything else.
Edited by Wisbech Eagle (16 Feb 2019 9.09pm)
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Jimenez  SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 16 Feb 19 9.50pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
That's the excuse of the hardline Brexiteer who is scared to face the possibility that their opinion might not now be the majority one. If it is what have you to be worried about? If it isn't why force the country to do something it doesn't want to do? Nothing in politics is ever set in stone. There is always another voting opportunity to reverse things. We could always apply to rejoin but why wait if it could be established now that in hindsight the people have changed their minds? It's rare that we have this opportunity so we should take it. So this "Brexit is Brexit" argument is a very weak one. The sort only used by those who have run out of convincing ones. I genuinely believe that for arguments sake if another vote was to take place? Leave would actually get an even bigger win margin.
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| ChrisGC Wantage 16 Feb 19 10.12pm |
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Originally posted by Jimenez
I genuinely believe that for arguments sake if another vote was to take place? Leave would actually get an even bigger win margin. It would probably be the same. What remainers demanding a losers' vote fail to ask themselves is this: "Would I change my vote?" Why they expect anyone else to just defies logic. And as for the "you know which way you should've voted now" line. Insulting people never brought anyone around to the cause...
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 16 Feb 19 10.18pm |
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Originally posted by Jimenez
I genuinely believe that for arguments sake if another vote was to take place? Leave would actually get an even bigger win margin. It well might but a lot depends on the options. For sure it would not be a straight in or out again as everyone now realises that doesn't mean a lot. I suspect it would be a three way choice of the existing deal, no deal or no Brexit with a single transferable vote. It would produce a huge drama to even sort out what goes on the ballot and months of debate and continuing uncertainty. Better that though than just crashing out.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 16 Feb 19 10.31pm |
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Originally posted by ChrisGC
It would probably be the same. What remainers demanding a losers' vote fail to ask themselves is this: "Would I change my vote?" Why they expect anyone else to just defies logic. And as for the "you know which way you should've voted now" line. Insulting people never brought anyone around to the cause... What you fail to acknowledge, and might not truly realise, is that most people, even if that excludes you, now understand the complexities and implications much better than they did in 2016, whether they were then a Leaver or a Remainer. More knowledge causes re-appraisals which leads to hindsight and a possible change of mind. Insults are not involved. Just statements of fact. What the result would be is a matter of opinion. I know what mine is but if you are convinced that the country would still decide to leave why worry?
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| Mapletree Croydon 16 Feb 19 10.51pm |
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Originally posted by ChrisGC
It would probably be the same. What remainers demanding a losers' vote fail to ask themselves is this: "Would I change my vote?" Why they expect anyone else to just defies logic. And as for the "you know which way you should've voted now" line. Insulting people never brought anyone around to the cause... Well, those that didn’t have the chance to vote last time but would now wouldn’t change. Because they didn’t vote last time. But there are more than enough of them to change the outcome which surely they would do.
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