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March 19 2019 6.54pm

HOLS obsession with racism?

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Cebu, Philippines & Wisbech, Cambr... 25 Feb 19 2.52pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Something is unlawful or not.

Yes it is BUT that something has to be the whole and not just one part of it.


Was the quote directly inciting unlawful behaviour or not?
More likely, someone in authority decided that they didn't like the politics of the person quoting it and therein lies the problem.

Who decides and why?

Neither the accused nor the accuser, whether they are a "person in authority" or just someone who "didn't like the politics", gets to decide! That's the job of a Judge. If anyone is illegally detained then they also have recourse to the law to obtain justice.

How far down this road shall we go and in whose name?

We go as far as the law allows and if the general view of Parliament is that it's not far enough, or too far, then we change it.

Does it not occur to you that 'hate speech' is often just another euphemism for wrong think?

No, because it isn't. It's much more than just speech that an individual, or group, disagrees with. It's speech which expresses hatred of a person's differentness intended to harass, intimidate, threaten, alarm or distress.

Show me the 'hate speech' related to this case and let us decide what hate was involved.

As no-one knows the full details of this "case" that's impossible. Neither of us are Judges and only a Judge in full possession of all the facts would be able to make a proper judgement. Those who think otherwise do so because of confirmation bias.

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Cebu, Philippines & Wisbech, Cambr... 25 Feb 19 3.07pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays


There is no justification for a person who believes in free speech. Censorship of opinions someone doesn't like, describing a viewpoint as 'hate' is insidious.

It isn't though just censoring opinions you don't like is it? Hate speech quite specifically targets attacks, both verbal and written, against others because of their colour, race, disability, nationality, ethnicity or national origin, religion, gender identity, or sexual orientation which are threatening, abusive or intended to harass, distress or alarm. Provided your opinions stay clear of such attacks you can say whatever you like.


Those were 'traditional Tory' values on free speech. I still hold them.

Traditional "one nation" Tories have always believed in a fair society and welcome the developments within our democracy which help to establish that. Only those who cling to the values of the Empire fail to recognise progress.


Edited by Stirlingsays (25 Feb 2019 2.44pm)

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Online Flag Wisbech, England 25 Feb 19 3.39pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

It isn't though just censoring opinions you don't like is it? Hate speech quite specifically targets attacks, both verbal and written, against others because of their colour, race, disability, nationality, ethnicity or national origin, religion, gender identity, or sexual orientation which are threatening, abusive or intended to harass, distress or alarm. Provided your opinions stay clear of such attacks you can say whatever you like.

Is that a joke?

Such a traditional Tory aren't you. Taking what you put there I could arrest someone for telling a Irish joke or mother in law joke.

Indeed people have been arrested for offensive jokes already. These laws did not exist until your buddies in 'New Labour' turned up.

Don't justify this cancer to me.

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Those were 'traditional Tory' values on free speech. I still hold them.

False.

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Traditional "one nation" Tories have always believed in a fair society and welcome the developments within our democracy which help to establish that. Only those who cling to the values of the Empire fail to recognise progress.

'Values of the Empire'....We can see your politics by your own words.

The term 'one nation' Tory is from generations ago. Indeed from a time with Macmillan when an Empire still existed.

A time you seem to imply here wasn't fair because you support the modern changes to free speech. .

In my view you support socialism and you certainly show you support the left's social values, no one on the right here is fooled by your disingenuous claims.

Mcmillan was a conservative.....A conservative conserves....and it isn't just economics...the only conservatism you support is the pound in your pocket.

Edited by Stirlingsays (25 Feb 2019 3.40pm)

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Cebu, Philippines & Wisbech, Cambr... 25 Feb 19 4.37pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays


Is that a joke?

Such a traditional Tory aren't you. Taking what you put there I could arrest someone for telling a Irish joke or mother in law joke.

That's just nonsense. There aren't threats, abuse, harassment, distress or alarm in any genuine joke. If someone conceals such things within a joke then they deserve to be exposed.

Indeed people have been arrested for offensive jokes already. These laws did not exist until your buddies in 'New Labour' turned up.

Don't justify this cancer to me.

Oh the laws existed, they have simply been clarified in recent years.


'Values of the Empire'....We can see your politics by your own words.

The term 'one nation' Tory is from generations ago. Indeed from a time with Macmillan when an Empire still existed.

I was around when Macmillan was PM and old enough to have paid attention. He oversaw the final years of an Empire that was effectively ended by WW2 and replaced by the Commonwealth in 1949. Macmillan's approach, which was continued by Heath, Heseltine, and even Cameron of trying to have a Tory party which looked after everyone and not just the few, is something I have always admired and regard his tradition as very valuable.

A time you seem to imply here wasn't fair because you support the modern changes to free speech.

Not at all. There were a plethora of reasons for the unfairness which have demanded, and got, attention.

In my view you support socialism and you certainly show you support the left's social values, no one on the right here is fooled by your disingenuous claims.

Well, not for the first time, your view is incorrect. I am a social democrat, who is a fiscal conservative but socially liberal. Centre right, just as the bulk of the present Tory MPs are.

Mcmillan was a conservative.....A conservative conserves....and it isn't just economics...the only conservatism you support is the pound in your pocket.

Sure, a conservative conserves culture, tradition and things of value for future generations. A conservative doesn't conserve things that are past their sell by date just because they are old. Evolution teaches us the need to adapt or perish.


'Values of the Empire'....We can see your politics by your own words.

We can see from your words that you are no Conservative, just as the members of the ERG aren't. You, and they, are wolves in a sheep's clothing. The wolves being UKIP. UKIP has infiltrated the Tory party just as Momentum has Labour. Which is why we so need the rise of the middle ground and at long last can see the green shoots finally appearing.


Edited by Stirlingsays (25 Feb 2019 3.40pm)

 

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View 7mins's Profile 7mins Flag In the bush 26 Feb 19 12.42pm Send a Private Message to 7mins Add 7mins as a friend

There’s very very little racism in UK. There are far bigger problems in UK than racism.

Uncomfortable conversations need to be had.

Islamaphobia is used to curtail polite discourse. I think it was Hitchens that said “a word created by fascists, and used by cowards, to manipulate morons.”.

Every single human has prejudices. The black community, needs to stop revealing in victim hood, stop listening to Al Sharpton, Spike Lee. Start listening to Walter Williams, Thomas Sowell and to a lesser extent Taleeb Starkes. Instead of blaming made up reasons for the black communities problems, be self critical... we’re not victims, we are a untapped resource.

 

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View 7mins's Profile 7mins Flag In the bush 26 Feb 19 12.46pm Send a Private Message to 7mins Add 7mins as a friend

The biggest problem in UK is the gap between the rich and the poor. Money sees no colour.

Greed is a false economy. Pay your taxes from the self-employed builder, to the CEO of Amazon/Starbucks.

 

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View dannyboy1978's Profile dannyboy1978 Flag 26 Feb 19 6.42pm Send a Private Message to dannyboy1978 Add dannyboy1978 as a friend

Well if this true I must be a racist.
Pussy patrol, do you agree with this?
[Link]

I am shocked.

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 27 Feb 19 11.07am Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by dannyboy1978

Well if this true I must be a racist.
Pussy patrol, do you agree with this?
[Link]

I am shocked.

Tells you all you need to know.

Well done politicians.

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 27 Feb 19 11.15am Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Something is unlawful or not.

Yes it is BUT that something has to be the whole and not just one part of it.


Was the quote directly inciting unlawful behaviour or not?
More likely, someone in authority decided that they didn't like the politics of the person quoting it and therein lies the problem.

Who decides and why?

Neither the accused nor the accuser, whether they are a "person in authority" or just someone who "didn't like the politics", gets to decide! That's the job of a Judge. If anyone is illegally detained then they also have recourse to the law to obtain justice.

How far down this road shall we go and in whose name?

We go as far as the law allows and if the general view of Parliament is that it's not far enough, or too far, then we change it.

Does it not occur to you that 'hate speech' is often just another euphemism for wrong think?

No, because it isn't. It's much more than just speech that an individual, or group, disagrees with. It's speech which expresses hatred of a person's differentness intended to harass, intimidate, threaten, alarm or distress.

Show me the 'hate speech' related to this case and let us decide what hate was involved.

As no-one knows the full details of this "case" that's impossible. Neither of us are Judges and only a Judge in full possession of all the facts would be able to make a proper judgement. Those who think otherwise do so because of confirmation bias.


You seem to live in a very simple world Wisbech.

Either you are incapable or unwilling to read between the lines.
We now have a selection of totally undesirable, backward or anti Western cultures in this country and to object to any of them is deemed 'racist' or 'hateful'. That is the deliberately manufactured situation we live in and one you seem happy with.


Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (27 Feb 2019 11.16am)

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Cebu, Philippines & Wisbech, Cambr... 28 Feb 19 1.58pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

You seem to live in a very simple world Wisbech.

Either you are incapable or unwilling to read between the lines.
We now have a selection of totally undesirable, backward or anti Western cultures in this country and to object to any of them is deemed 'racist' or 'hateful'. That is the deliberately manufactured situation we live in and one you seem happy with.


Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (27 Feb 2019 11.16am)

That is bs in all it's assertions.

My "world" is very far from a simple one, although I won't go into detail here.

I am perfectly able to read between the lines. For instance I do it all the time in forum threads like this one.

We don't have a "selection of totally undesirable, backward or anti Western cultures in this country". We have some minorities within cultures that have undesirable aspects to them. That includes far right views within "white" cultures every bit as much as the radicalised within Islamic cultures.

Objecting to them, or to anything else, can be done without recourse to using racist or any other kind of hate speech. The two issues are separate and not mutually dependent.

It's not been deliberately manufactured. It has grown out of a progressive evolvement of the western world's democracies ability to recognise the need for fairness and equality for all members of society.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Online Flag Wisbech, England 28 Feb 19 2.22pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by 7mins

The biggest problem in UK is the gap between the rich and the poor. Money sees no colour.

Greed is a false economy. Pay your taxes from the self-employed builder, to the CEO of Amazon/Starbucks.


For me, the gap between the rich and poor isn't so much the problem.....it's the size of the gap at the extremes.

Having said that, it's a global problem that I don't think is correctable at a national level.

Any meritocracy will result in a gap......compared to most nations on the planet we are doing fantastically well.

However, it's the job of the responsible to ensure that we have a national consciousness and we look after our own.

As a bit of an aside here's a bit of good news about thoughts on the UK economy.

[Link]

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 28 Feb 19 2.51pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

That is bs in all it's assertions.

My "world" is very far from a simple one, although I won't go into detail here.

I am perfectly able to read between the lines. For instance I do it all the time in forum threads like this one.

We don't have a "selection of totally undesirable, backward or anti Western cultures in this country". We have some minorities within cultures that have undesirable aspects to them. That includes far right views within "white" cultures every bit as much as the radicalised within Islamic cultures.

Objecting to them, or to anything else, can be done without recourse to using racist or any other kind of hate speech. The two issues are separate and not mutually dependent.

It's not been deliberately manufactured. It has grown out of a progressive evolvement of the western world's democracies ability to recognise the need for fairness and equality for all members of society.

So for example, you think that most Muslims aren't in favour of death to anyone who insults their religion?
You don't think the majority of Muslims believe that women are second class citizens?
In any case, it doesn't matter if only a percentage of a culture is undesirable. What matters is that it is undesirable and now in this country via mass immigration.

No one needs to use racist language to expose the truth. The truth is out there.

This process has nothing to do with equality and fairness and everything to do with globalisation, a cheaper pool of labour, greedy self interest and manipulating thought to accommodate it.

 

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