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April 20 2019 7.34pm

HOLS obsession with racism?

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag Wisbech, England 05 Apr 19 8.40am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by jeeagles

In all honesty. I'm not really sure. But it seems he has more money than the Montenegro FA.

Yep, footballers are certainly overpaid in an 'ethics' sense, but that's the market I suppose. It all relies upon how popular the sport is.

It's a reality of the footballer that they have always taken abuse from the crowd. In England racial abuse has largely reduced but abuse will continue wherever a crowd is as a matter of statistical realities.

Footballers, especially international footballers with sensitivity to abuse are not being realistic. Being offended is justified, however in terms of being able to carry out their job it makes as much sense as a nurse being scared of blood.....it's going to happen.

Southgate was talking in terms of players walking off in qualifying games over racial abuse from crowds. If they think taking a stand on cultural attitudes in other countries is warranted that's for them. Are we seriously going to have a situation where certain countries are banned or play with no supporters? For me, it's King Canute and the tide.


Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Apr 2019 9.01am)

 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 05 Apr 19 9.16am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Back in the seventies and eighties I regularly heard monkey chants and other stuff at Selhurst park. The people who did this thought it funny and many in the crowd laughed. Our black players at the time and their team mates spoke out against it.

Eventually the more evolved supporters realised that abusing the opposition black player just upset our players and so shut up. Peer pressure then silenced the hold outs and on a number of occasions I heard people in the crowd tell some idiot if he didn't shut up he was going to get a hiding.

I think threatening to close a ground or deduct points is the only realistic punishment. In this country it is front page news if one supporter abuses a player. In many parts of Europe whole crowds are doing it and the local media don't bother to report it.

I think you make a few examples and then their media will pick up on this and it becomes a hot topic, hopefully then peer group pressure from fans will contain it.

You can't change society they're will always be idiots but you can take a stand something UEFA and FIFA have completely failed to do.

We ban many things in law that will not stop a determined individual but it does send a message that we do not accept that behaviour.

 


One more point

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag Wisbech, England 05 Apr 19 9.26am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

Back in the seventies and eighties I regularly heard monkey chants and other stuff at Selhurst park. The people who did this thought it funny and many in the crowd laughed. Our black players at the time and their team mates spoke out against it.

Eventually the more evolved supporters realised that abusing the opposition black player just upset our players and so shut up. Peer pressure then silenced the hold outs and on a number of occasions I heard people in the crowd tell some idiot if he didn't shut up he was going to get a hiding.

I think threatening to close a ground or deduct points is the only realistic punishment. In this country it is front page news if one supporter abuses a player. In many parts of Europe whole crowds are doing it and the local media don't bother to report it.

I think you make a few examples and then their media will pick up on this and it becomes a hot topic, hopefully then peer group pressure from fans will contain it.

You can't change society they're will always be idiots but you can take a stand something UEFA and FIFA have completely failed to do.

We ban many things in law that will not stop a determined individual but it does send a message that we do not accept that behaviour.

It's a good post.

I think with over matched sides more elements in the crowd are going to treat affecting the opposition as part of their entertainment.

If the players or the institutions are going to be affected by insults then essentially it ends with empty stadiums or black-listing teams because these things aren't changeable on demand.

It isn't my approach but it's certainly the approach of some and probably the way it'll go.

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View DanH's Profile DanH Flag SW2 05 Apr 19 9.30am Send a Private Message to DanH Add DanH as a friend

This is why it's still a problem.

[Link]

Edited by DanH (05 Apr 2019 9.31am)

 


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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 05 Apr 19 9.51am Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

The man who in his own words, spends more money on a night out in London that some countries get fined for racist chants wants to retire because of racism.

How sympathetic does he really expect the vast majority of people to be?

The absurdly disproportionate response in the media to terrace behaviour that has actually been going on for decades is about politics.
In England, racisl insults at football are rare and why do we single out racial insults as being any more insulting than any other type? Politics that's why.

It's not like you can do anything about your colour, so it isn't even a clever insult.
It belongs in the category of idiotic and immature and should be treated as such.
Sadly, many Black footballers don't help themselves by responding to the abuse as they often do. They are being encouraged to do so by a media and organisations that have their own agenda.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag Wisbech, England 05 Apr 19 9.53am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by DanH

This is why it's still a problem.

[Link]

Edited by DanH (05 Apr 2019 9.31am)

Yes, people who shout abuse at others, are an unpleasant reality.

Using words like the 'C' word at groups they don't like is just not the done thing.

Is it Dan.

 

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 05 Apr 19 10.20am Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

The man who in his own words, spends more money on a night out in London that some countries get fined for racist chants wants to retire because of racism.

How sympathetic does he really expect the vast majority of people to be?

The absurdly disproportionate response in the media to terrace behaviour that has actually been going on for decades is about politics.
In England, racisl insults at football are rare and why do we single out racial insults as being any more insulting than any other type? Politics that's why.

It's not like you can do anything about your colour, so it isn't even a clever insult.
It belongs in the category of idiotic and immature and should be treated as such.
Sadly, many Black footballers don't help themselves by responding to the abuse as they often do. They are being encouraged to do so by a media and organisations that have their own agenda.

I did think his comments were self defeating. He spends over 40 k on a night out. Silly billy. Hardly going for the sympathy vote. Also made himself sound so mercenary.

I get the anger of having the potential of abuse always hanging over you. Just did such a bad job of explaining that and empathising with others in a similar position.

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View DanH's Profile DanH Flag SW2 05 Apr 19 10.23am Send a Private Message to DanH Add DanH as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Yes, people who shout abuse at others, are an unpleasant reality.

Using words like the 'C' word at groups they don't like is just not the done thing.

Is it Dan.

Yeah but people can stop being C's by not being C's.

Danny Rose can't stop being black.

It's not that difficult to see the difference really, is it?

 


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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View DanH's Profile DanH Flag SW2 05 Apr 19 10.24am Send a Private Message to DanH Add DanH as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

The man who in his own words, spends more money on a night out in London that some countries get fined for racist chants wants to retire because of racism.

How sympathetic does he really expect the vast majority of people to be?

The absurdly disproportionate response in the media to terrace behaviour that has actually been going on for decades is about politics.
In England, racisl insults at football are rare and why do we single out racial insults as being any more insulting than any other type? Politics that's why.

It's not like you can do anything about your colour, so it isn't even a clever insult.
It belongs in the category of idiotic and immature and should be treated as such.
Sadly, many Black footballers don't help themselves by responding to the abuse as they often do. They are being encouraged to do so by a media and organisations that have their own agenda.

I will never accept your argument that the money means players should just grin and bear it. No amount of money stops you being a human being.

 


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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 05 Apr 19 10.26am Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by DanH

I will never accept your argument that the money means players should just grin and bear it. No amount of money stops you being a human being.

That's not my argument.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag Wisbech, England 05 Apr 19 10.28am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by DanH

Yeah but people can stop being C's by not being C's.

Danny Rose can't stop being black.

It's not that difficult to see the difference really, is it?

Yes, there is a difference certainly.

However, abuse is abuse. I defend your right to offend, but I think it's fair to criticise profanity.

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View DanH's Profile DanH Flag SW2 05 Apr 19 10.32am Send a Private Message to DanH Add DanH as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

That's not my argument.

It basically is though isn't it?

 


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