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June 18 2019 12.03am

New Zealand shooting at mosques

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Online Flag Wisbech, England 15 Mar 19 3.10pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by blackheatheagle

Very very sad news.

Given some comments in media (UK and outside) and here few points i would like to highlight.

- Cliche of `terror has no religion`. Well, we all know that but which also should not mean how religion become a fatal weapon for terror. I see various of Muslim touch-point much more like pointing the finger that `see, not only Muslims act terror`. Meanwhile i also see the motivation to check at other side defending `this is self-motivated action, he is ill etc`. None of this give me a clear picture.

- Christian and Muslim rooted countries have a very common difference.

Christian countries passed through fighting independence of individual and shed blood for this. Milestones like Magna Carta, French revolution or many other which simply get over monarchism from government and religion perspective. On top of this, replaced this with an evolving environment which gives priority to individual and human right which was fed by science and education.

Whereas, there is nearly no Muslim country (or a few which has no influence) had similar experience. This stability ended up with a conflict with new-world order which was managed and ruled by above movements.

Thus, Muslim countries can easily consume Jihadi-mindset (which is similar to Crusades period) which end up having millions of people who would not refrain to be part of any terrorist act. (PS here: This ain`t a justification of Islam, i oppose all religious)

This is also root cause of the failure of `so-called democracy` in Iraq or Arab Spring. I remember myself laughing with my ass when Bush and Blair was stating their objective is bringing democracy to Middle-East which ended millions of people`s live and triggered an environment which created various of terrorist groups. Democracy is required by individuals and can be granted if they fight for it, it can not be delivered by any dictations. Removing those dictators without any reliable placement was a suicide. Like it would be suicide if somehow people get over monarchic government or church by replacing nothing meaningful.

And for sure, we can not deny the fact of official terror on Earth which is run by conflicting strategies of official governments. Having no strategy and staying desperate against refugee flooding (which was triggered by so-called democratic Arab Spring) is one sample.

I would not be optimistic to wait nations who has no democratic mindset to be democratic and follow the evolution which West followed. But sounds like i am also becoming pessimistic that whatever is happening (terror, refugees, extremism) nowadays will boost polarization and will end-up self-saving solutions by governments by ignoring mutual concurrence which is supposed to be only regional and / or global solution.

Edited by blackheatheagle (15 Mar 2019 3.05pm)

A good and interesting post, cheers.

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 15 Mar 19 3.20pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by W12

I donít really see Christianity in this country peddling anything. Just quite nice people on the whole going to church.

You can thank the reformation for that.
Without it, Catholicism would be the primary religion like in Spain, Italy, and South America.

This would be a very different country. The modern world has been created by casting off the shackles of religious dogma and employing science.

 

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View W12's Profile W12 Flag 15 Mar 19 3.25pm Send a Private Message to W12 Add W12 as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

You can thank the reformation for that.
Without it, Catholicism would be the primary religion like in Spain, Italy, and South America.

This would be a very different country. The modern world has been created by casting off the shackles of religious dogma and employing science.

Don't think it was entirely the reformation but I'm nit picking. Yes generally agree.

 

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View PalazioVecchio's Profile PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 15 Mar 19 3.25pm Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend

my fear is another terrorist atrocity to atone for the previous one. Any day now. Wherever we are living.


and the cycle going on ad infinitum.

 


34,300 reasons to love Selhurst in 2021

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 15 Mar 19 3.32pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by W12

Don't think it was entirely the reformation but I'm nit picking. Yes generally agree.

The benefits of the modern world including education have allowed the transition over time but I'm sure that the catalyst for all of this including the industrial revolution and scientific enlightenment began when we threw off the straight jacket of Catholicism.

 

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View becky's Profile becky Flag over the moon 15 Mar 19 3.36pm Send a Private Message to becky Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add becky as a friend

Originally posted by W12

I donít really see Christianity in this country peddling anything. Just quite nice people on the whole going to church.

No, they don't peddle anything (although some of the more evangelistic churches do get 'out there'), but if you think that Christians just go to church then you couldn't be more wrong!

just a few examples of current activity (and at no cost to the State or local authorities)....

- running day centres for homeless/refugees/old people
- running free English courses for immigrants of all nationalities
-lay chaplains in hospitals and hospices who will sit with the sick and dying who have no-one else to be with them, visit those who have no other visitors
- lay chaplains in prisons trying to assist those who truly want to reform, visiting with those whose family have disowned them or can't get to see them.
- local churches run befriending groups for the lonely and housebound
- supply and run food banks
- organise and provide for hot food runs for the homeless on a nightly basis

....and most if not all of it is done without a fanfare, without preaching and without looking for any reward other than being true to their faith.

.....then these quite nice people go to church Sundays and give thanks for all they have that these people they help don't.

 

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View W12's Profile W12 Flag 15 Mar 19 3.56pm Send a Private Message to W12 Add W12 as a friend

Originally posted by becky

No, they don't peddle anything (although some of the more evangelistic churches do get 'out there'), but if you think that Christians just go to church then you couldn't be more wrong!

just a few examples of current activity (and at no cost to the State or local authorities)....

- running day centres for homeless/refugees/old people
- running free English courses for immigrants of all nationalities
-lay chaplains in hospitals and hospices who will sit with the sick and dying who have no-one else to be with them, visit those who have no other visitors
- lay chaplains in prisons trying to assist those who truly want to reform, visiting with those whose family have disowned them or can't get to see them.
- local churches run befriending groups for the lonely and housebound
- supply and run food banks
- organise and provide for hot food runs for the homeless on a nightly basis

....and most if not all of it is done without a fanfare, without preaching and without looking for any reward other than being true to their faith.

.....then these quite nice people go to church Sundays and give thanks for all they have that these people they help don't.

It's rare these days to want to thank someone for correcting yourself. I agree they are generally more than nice people, they are morally truthful because actions speak so much louder than words.

 

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View laddo's Profile laddo Flag london 15 Mar 19 3.57pm Send a Private Message to laddo Add laddo as a friend

Of course, typical of the right, you just yell Iím on the left. Actually Iím slightly different. Where many on the left would happily engage in debate with the far-right, I just call it as it is.

There are some on here with their mock remorse who also in other threads praise, almost hero-worship, Tommy Robinson. This is a man who describes Islam as the enemy. Is it any wonder that with such mouthpieces of hate having a platform that events like this morning in New Zealand happen?

Letís have it straight. Isis and the tommy Robinson right are cut from the same cloth. Both groups are intolerant of others and have warped ideologies albeit one grounded in religion, the other in nationalism. In an ideal world Iíd love to put you all on a remote island with weapons and say Ďfill your boots ladsí. Neither would be a loss to society.

 


laddo

"People say, live fast, die young. I say live fast, die old. That's me, the non-conformist".
David Brent.

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View EverybodyDannsNow's Profile EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 15 Mar 19 4.01pm Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

What ideas are these?

Are you suggesting that someone using a set of circumstance as a reason to kill people means that those circumstances are not real?

Loopy logic right there.

Nelson Mandela used Apartied as a reason to be a terrorist. Does that mean that Apartied did not exist?

All of the usual stuff on birth rates, genetics, takeover of our culture etc.

No, Iím not suggesting that at all - Iím suggesting that someone who routinely blames the left for consequences of their beliefs, who fails to recognise the consequence of their own, is a hypocrite.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Online Flag Wisbech, England 15 Mar 19 4.02pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

When I was a youngster mum always told me that if you wanted to find a nice girl go to church.

I should have listened because I spent most of my time looking for them behind the local chippie.

Anyway she was talking about her era not mine because even then it was out of date advice.....because I shouldn't think there are too many 'fresh out of the vat' eligible females to be found in the pews even then let alone these days.....unless 'Songs of Praise' is doing the rounds.

Edited by Stirlingsays (15 Mar 2019 4.03pm)

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 15 Mar 19 4.03pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by W12

It's rare these days to want to thank someone for correcting yourself. I agree they are generally more than nice people, they are morally truthful because actions speak so much louder than words.

I think we must not confuse good people who exhibit 'Christian' attitudes by helping other people and those promoting scientific ignorance, ridiculous fairy stories and the worship of invisible beings.

These things are separate.

 

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View Midlands Eagle's Profile Midlands Eagle Flag 15 Mar 19 4.04pm Send a Private Message to Midlands Eagle Add Midlands Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by laddo


Letís have it straight. Isis and the tommy Robinson right are cut from the same cloth.

Tommy Robinson doesn't kill people that he doesn't agree with

 

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