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June 30 2022 4.23am

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View PalazioVecchio's Profile PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 21 Mar 22 12.12am Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend

Originally posted by BlueJay

Be aware that this is now at least the second time that you've refereed to behaviour that involves the murder of women and children as if it's some kind of fun day out. To you his behaviour may well be the equivalent of the tending of his front porch and back garden. To most it is not. Not everything has to be 'cleansed' through some kind of political lens that removes you from care for those involved.

so you get all your understanding of World Politics from Sky News ? i feel sorry for you.

Trump was right about the belligerent West and its constant Wars.

 


7 points from Manchester last season

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 21 Mar 22 3.13am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by georgenorman

"There are some ideas so wrong that only a very intelligent person could believe in them." [Orwell]

Unfortunately Orwell isn't here to comment.

However, unlike you I doubt he would have viewed the last thirty years without criticism. A huge opportunity for peace on the continent has been idiotically thrown away.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 21 Mar 22 3.37am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

If you seriously think this is just "elites" playing a game, then I regret to say that seems an idiotic idea to me. I doubt whether the collective leadership of the western world are responsible for an insane policy.

Do you seriously think we should just stand back and let Putin do whatever he wants? Think of what the consequences of that might be. They would be far worse than these already are.

How the aftermath and the impact on the poor and vulnerable is managed is another question entirely, but the response so far has been impressive.

It's not about 'letting Putin do what he wants'. It's about plotting a course that lessens the damage.

The western elites have chosen a path and use the media to support it. They omit whatever would challenge that position and voices like you just support whatever their consensus is.

I make the point that under the direction I support this war would never have occurred. As for what should be done I simply don't support taking highly self destructive paths that achieve very little.

I agree with criticising Putin for starting this war and I agree with support for the Ukrainians...however the decision to effectively create a cold war is very dangerous to humanity both militarily and only economically hurts the vulnerable.....and for what....so that you can claim some moral victory. Well, when the poor have to choose between heating their homes or feeding their children I'm sorry but I think that moralism is highly suspect.

So I heavily criticise the approach that led us here.

Instead of this constant support for war and aggression I support the same energy being placed towards peace. I don't see this happening....all I see is media...which is directed...being used to support cold war....a decision that can only hurt the middle and lower classes....but not the elites themselves. It also doesn't help the Ukrainians either.

You made the claim the other day that because I'm conservative...well I'm a social conservative....that caring about the poor was somehow socialist.....this irritated me. I come from the council estates and been poor for a good portion of my life and consider myself working class. I've seen what the practical affect of leftist policies has been....so don't play that leftist game that caring about those with less is somehow the domain of the left. I regard that as a myth.

Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Mar 2022 3.58am)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View georgenorman's Profile georgenorman Flag 21 Mar 22 7.40am Send a Private Message to georgenorman Add georgenorman as a friend

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

so you get all your understanding of World Politics from Sky News ? i feel sorry for you.

Trump was right about the belligerent West and its constant Wars.

You should change your username to Der Sturmer.

 

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View PalazioVecchio's Profile PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 21 Mar 22 8.15am Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend

Originally posted by georgenorman

You should change your username to Der Sturmer.

a classy comment from you there. Mods, this bloke just accused me of being more extreme than the Nazi's. Simply because i disapprove of all the sabre-rattling from NATO.

 


7 points from Manchester last season

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View Nicholas91's Profile Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 21 Mar 22 8.26am Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

a classy comment from you there. Mods, this bloke just accused me of being more extreme than the Nazi's. Simply because i disapprove of all the sabre-rattling from NATO.

Grass

 


Here's to you the famous red and blue.....

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 21 Mar 22 9.21am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

It's not about 'letting Putin do what he wants'. It's about plotting a course that lessens the damage.

The western elites have chosen a path and use the media to support it. They omit whatever would challenge that position and voices like you just support whatever their consensus is.

I make the point that under the direction I support this war would never have occurred. As for what should be done I simply don't support taking highly self destructive paths that achieve very little.

I agree with criticising Putin for starting this war and I agree with support for the Ukrainians...however the decision to effectively create a cold war is very dangerous to humanity both militarily and only economically hurts the vulnerable.....and for what....so that you can claim some moral victory. Well, when the poor have to choose between heating their homes or feeding their children I'm sorry but I think that moralism is highly suspect.

So I heavily criticise the approach that led us here.

Instead of this constant support for war and aggression I support the same energy being placed towards peace. I don't see this happening....all I see is media...which is directed...being used to support cold war....a decision that can only hurt the middle and lower classes....but not the elites themselves. It also doesn't help the Ukrainians either.

You made the claim the other day that because I'm conservative...well I'm a social conservative....that caring about the poor was somehow socialist.....this irritated me. I come from the council estates and been poor for a good portion of my life and consider myself working class. I've seen what the practical affect of leftist policies has been....so don't play that leftist game that caring about those with less is somehow the domain of the left. I regard that as a myth.

Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Mar 2022 3.58am)

That is a typical unsupported and unverifiable claim of the right. It's the promise of the mythical green grass in the fields over the "if only" hills.

There is no "constant support for war and aggression"! All that is being done is to seek peace. We haven't created a new cold war. What Putin has done meant one was inevitable unless we stood back and did nothing.

The Soviet Union collapsed because the countries of Eastern Europe gathered the collective will to free themselves of the yoke imposed on them by Stalin. That an ex member of the KGB, and the bunch of ruthless thugs who support him, feel cheated by that and are manoeuvring to reverse it, doesn't mean we just allow them to. Those hard won freedoms need to be protected, not just for them, but for our safety and security too.

No-one wants to see the Ukrainians, or the poor and vulnerable at home and around the world, suffering. Ensuring that is kept to a minimum whilst making the necessary and unavoidable responses to Putin I am certain is in the minds of the decision takers.

Of course, with the benefit of hindsight, there will be things we have done wrong, or could have done better. The most obvious being that we were complacent in thinking that Putin really didn't mean it and could be shepherded into the modern world. We should have done this the moment he walked into Crimea.

This obsession with the "elites", as if there is a homogeneous group of people all conspiring together to protect themselves at the expense of everyone else, is just an invention of bogeymen. Of course, there are those in positions of authority. There are the wealthy, both old money and new. There are those who report on them. Their interests sometimes coincide, but not always, and there isn't, and cannot be, any co-ordination. In any case, most are not the evil despots that some imagine them to be. They are mostly good people trying to do their best.

We are where we are, and at times like these, politics need to be put in a box and allowed to gather dust. We need all hands on the wheel if we are going to turn the ship away from the course which will see us on the rocks. We can decide the best way to rebuild once we are back in calm water again.

Muttering into your coffee about "if only" just wastes energy and time.

 

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View georgenorman's Profile georgenorman Flag 21 Mar 22 9.46am Send a Private Message to georgenorman Add georgenorman as a friend

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

a classy comment from you there. Mods, this bloke just accused me of being more extreme than the Nazi's. Simply because i disapprove of all the sabre-rattling from NATO.

Where did I accuse you of being more extreme? Do you disapprove of the actual use of weapons by Putin and his sabre-rattling of possible escalation?

 

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View silvertop's Profile silvertop Flag Portishead 21 Mar 22 10.21am Send a Private Message to silvertop Add silvertop as a friend

Originally posted by croydon proud

Saw lady on the news saying Russian troops are raping women before killing them , hope its not true but propoganda and truth in war etc.

No idea, but they do have some form for that...

 

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View silvertop's Profile silvertop Flag Portishead 21 Mar 22 10.35am Send a Private Message to silvertop Add silvertop as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

It's not about 'letting Putin do what he wants'. It's about plotting a course that lessens the damage.

The western elites have chosen a path and use the media to support it. They omit whatever would challenge that position and voices like you just support whatever their consensus is.

I make the point that under the direction I support this war would never have occurred. As for what should be done I simply don't support taking highly self destructive paths that achieve very little.

I agree with criticising Putin for starting this war and I agree with support for the Ukrainians...however the decision to effectively create a cold war is very dangerous to humanity both militarily and only economically hurts the vulnerable.....and for what....so that you can claim some moral victory. Well, when the poor have to choose between heating their homes or feeding their children I'm sorry but I think that moralism is highly suspect.

So I heavily criticise the approach that led us here.

Instead of this constant support for war and aggression I support the same energy being placed towards peace. I don't see this happening....all I see is media...which is directed...being used to support cold war....a decision that can only hurt the middle and lower classes....but not the elites themselves. It also doesn't help the Ukrainians either.

You made the claim the other day that because I'm conservative...well I'm a social conservative....that caring about the poor was somehow socialist.....this irritated me. I come from the council estates and been poor for a good portion of my life and consider myself working class. I've seen what the practical affect of leftist policies has been....so don't play that leftist game that caring about those with less is somehow the domain of the left. I regard that as a myth.

Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Mar 2022 3.58am)

This isn't an attack Stirling, it's a question. Your posts suggest that the West shares the blame for the war as we somehow could have prevented this. Unfortunately, all the posts I have seen you write make references to your points being set out elsewhere.

I know your bug bears of concentration of power into self-serving elites and globalism, but I fail to see a clear causal link between those elements and the present conflict.

Before you respond, I see a playground analogy of a bad boy being shouted at for not catching a nice boy who fell over a full 30 yards away. Yeah, the bad boy has issues, but he can hardly be blamed for that. Putin is a megalomaniac who absolute power has corrupted absolutely. The West did not make him what he is.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 21 Mar 22 1.03pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by silvertop

This isn't an attack Stirling, it's a question. Your posts suggest that the West shares the blame for the war as we somehow could have prevented this. Unfortunately, all the posts I have seen you write make references to your points being set out elsewhere.

I know your bug bears of concentration of power into self-serving elites and globalism, but I fail to see a clear causal link between those elements and the present conflict.

Before you respond, I see a playground analogy of a bad boy being shouted at for not catching a nice boy who fell over a full 30 yards away. Yeah, the bad boy has issues, but he can hardly be blamed for that. Putin is a megalomaniac who absolute power has corrupted absolutely. The West did not make him what he is.

Busy today but I'll respond tonight or tomorrow on why I have that position on Nato and our elites of the last thirty years.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View PalazioVecchio's Profile PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 21 Mar 22 1.09pm Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend

Originally posted by georgenorman

Where did I accuse you of being more extreme? Do you disapprove of the actual use of weapons by Putin and his sabre-rattling of possible escalation?

i have already said that both Putin and NATO are warmonger crooks.

jeez, do try to keep up with the debate.

 


7 points from Manchester last season

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