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August 22 2019 8.51pm

Continued mass shootings in America

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View dollardays's Profile dollardays Flag 08 Aug 19 11.47am Send a Private Message to dollardays Add dollardays as a friend

America is a crazy place with more guns than people and killing becomes mundane, often barely making the news due to its frequency. Mass shootings are less common and so are the stand outs, but even they are becoming all too regular and unhinged types are inclined to repeat what they see is the new norm. With that in mind, and 400 million guns on the streets, it doesn't bode well.

I think trump is better positioned that almost any past President to possibly remove some of the assault rifle type guns from US streets, because he's not seen as having an adversarial relationship with gun owners. I wouldn't say any action would be a popular move as such, but there might be a little wiggle room to do something.

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 08 Aug 19 11.58am Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by dollardays

I think that graph falls in line with what most people would expect. It does look like environmental concerns could feasibly overtake immigration in years to come, though rather than saying 'we now need to concentrate on this instead' those issues could intertwine in interesting ways.

If environment extremes leads to all hands to the pumps, prioritising that would likely lead to immigration being curtailed, due to the potential mass chaos that may be happening in other nations for the same reason. Being an island nation would be a distinct advantage in a panic situation.

Politically too, it could lead to a more rational view of both issues through direct necessity rather than political opinion.

I am always surprised that many observers do not grasp the relationship between environment, third world population increase and migration with the resulting effect on resources and various social pressures.

As an island, we are in a very favourable position to avoid some of the potential catastrophes, but only if we prepare with a long term policy to halt the rising population via immigration and defend our borders. Self sufficiency for food production will be a big problem for us if world food supplies become stretched. The average person will probably have to get used to less food along with water and power rationing.

Politically, it will be very interesting to see what happens as British people realise that they need to look after those that are already here and reject futile ideas about saving every refugee in the world and accommodating the ambitions of economic migrants.


Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (08 Aug 2019 12.01pm)

 

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View dollardays's Profile dollardays Flag 08 Aug 19 12.10pm Send a Private Message to dollardays Add dollardays as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

I am always surprised that many observers do not grasp the relationship between environment, third world population increase and migration with the resulting effect on resources and various social pressures.

As an island, we are in a very favourable position to avoid some of the potential catastrophes, but only if we prepare with a long term policy to halt the rising population via immigration and defend our borders. Self sufficiency for food production will be a big problem for us if world food supplies become stretched. The average person will probably have to get used to less food along with water and power rationing.

Politically, it will be very interesting to see what happens as British people realise that they need to look after those that are already here and reject futile ideas about saving every refugee in the world and accommodating the ambitions of economic migrants.


Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (08 Aug 2019 12.01pm)

Yes, I do think we may enter a time where the stars align so to speak. Nature has a way of reclaiming and humbling and it may be that having this take, or that take all becomes an irrelevance due to pressing realities that supersede all of that in the moment.

I think the pace and urgency of environmental issues may surprise, and so it could be something we find ourselves in the middle of before we've made many and indeed any preparations.. so somewhat along the lines that you're said. Then we'll find ourselves in a new reality and will be bringing up generations with likely far more essential concerns.

 

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Online Flag Chatham 08 Aug 19 12.22pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

You were chiming in on a mini thread about insults which caused my comment. No swerve at all.

If your mental age is still only in the teens I suppose I can understand why you might see your parents as being argumentative. It's the "Kevin" syndrome.

If I were your parent I would do rather more than just argue. A little bit of bedroom time out without the internet would seem in order.

So sorry, you're not correct.

Nope I didnt chime in.
I said people have different opinions on subjects which was in reply to your saying they were twisting the truth.
Tbh about bedroom time I probably go to sleep earlier than you.
Then again the only thing you exhaust during the day is probably your fingers.

 

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View W12's Profile W12 Flag 08 Aug 19 2.07pm Send a Private Message to W12 Add W12 as a friend

Originally posted by dollardays


It certainly has, but it's also responsible for many of the realities that some people take issue with, such as with cheap labour and immigration. I don't really see any alternative to capitalism but essentially is does weaken nation states, and puts massive amounts of money and power in the hands of those who just seek more of the same, and whose will others bend to on account of the massive influence they wield.

It's a fallacy that capitalism requires weakened nation states in fact and globalism is ultimately antithetical to capitalism - it's just a shortcut to profit by moving work to cheaper locations or importing cheap labor. Globalism is just a short term fix - a resource race to the bottom.

Trump has a way to go (particularly with the national debt) but is starting to prove this. Globalism has actually hurt the US in the long term e.g. losing manufacturing jobs whilst having the huge hidden cost of immigration.

 

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View dollardays's Profile dollardays Flag 08 Aug 19 2.51pm Send a Private Message to dollardays Add dollardays as a friend

Originally posted by W12

It's a fallacy that capitalism requires weakened nation states in fact and globalism is ultimately antithetical to capitalism - it's just a shortcut to profit by moving work to cheaper locations or importing cheap labor. Globalism is just a short term fix - a resource race to the bottom.

Trump has a way to go (particularly with the national debt) but is starting to prove this. Globalism has actually hurt the US in the long term e.g. losing manufacturing jobs whilst having the huge hidden cost of immigration.

I'm not saying it requires it as such, just that it tends to be what happens. I don't see it as something that's easy to reverse even if the intent is to do so. Time will tell.

Corporations are most often not beholden to a particular country hence why they are often successful at avoiding taxes as well as influencing policy. For instance it matters not a jot to them that there are 'high hidden costs to immigration' and yet they hold significant influence over policy decisions and have the ear of those that matter while the common man does not.

It's not dissimilar with military contractors in a way. You can strip a country of trillions even from within let alone globally, if you hold enough influence and have rigged the game well enough. As much as I think Trump is coming at things from a different angle, realistically I seriously doubt much will change with any of this.


Edited by dollardays (08 Aug 2019 3.04pm)

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 08 Aug 19 2.53pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

Nope I didnt chime in.
I said people have different opinions on subjects which was in reply to your saying they were twisting the truth.
Tbh about bedroom time I probably go to sleep earlier than you.
Then again the only thing you exhaust during the day is probably your fingers.

Where did I say, in this mini thread, that people "were twisting the truth"? They do, but it's not what I said. My comment was about the difference between addressing the post and not the poster. In simple terms, just for you, that you pay attention to the message and not the messenger.

I suspect I both get up earlier and go to bed later than most people. That's what having guests and an active dog who needs regular exercise does for you.

Alongside the several miles I walk with the dog every day I also play bowls, often more than game each day. As a game generally lasts 3 hours and involves a lot of walking I am pretty fit. Not just my fingers! It's just as well I can both think and type quickly or there wouldn't be time to fit it all in. Now, where's the lead!

 

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View W12's Profile W12 Flag 08 Aug 19 3.43pm Send a Private Message to W12 Add W12 as a friend

Originally posted by dollardays

I'm not saying it requires it as such, just that it tends to be what happens. I don't see it as something that's easy to reverse even if the intent is to do so. Time will tell.

Corporations are most often not beholden to a particular country hence why they are often successful at avoiding taxes as well as influencing policy. For instance it matters not a jot to them that there are 'high hidden costs to immigration' and yet they hold significant influence over policy decisions and have the ear of those that matter while the common man does not.

It's not dissimilar with military contractors in a way. You can strip a country of trillions even from within let alone globally, if you hold enough influence and have rigged the game well enough. As much as I think Trump is coming at things from a different angle, realistically I seriously doubt much will change with any of this.


Edited by dollardays (08 Aug 2019 3.04pm)

Yeah I agree that corporations and by extension the military industrial complex are far too influential and it's something we have to address but global trade does not necessitate weak borders. We just need a stronger, more masculine societies that recognize this.

Back on the specific subject of mass shootings though, see the Paul Joseph Watson video on Youtube and tell me he's wrong.

 

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Online Flag Chatham 08 Aug 19 4.59pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

That is blatant propaganda.

Even that right wing rag included the caveat that this was only true "when gang-related shootings are included".

Now whilst I don't underestimate the importance of acknowledging the appalling number of gang shootings these do not fall into the category of "mass shootings" as generally understood. Not in my view, nor I suspect in most people's.

Disputes between criminal gangs that involve multiple murders are not the same as mass murders of innocent people at either random or for political motivations.

More than 4 dead in a single episode is a mass shooting.
Irrelevant if its gangs or not.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag Wisbech, England 08 Aug 19 5.12pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

More than 4 dead in a single episode is a mass shooting.
Irrelevant if its gangs or not.

No point talking common sense to idealogs. They see the world away from statistics and interpret evidence to fit their feelings.

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 08 Aug 19 6.03pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

More than 4 dead in a single episode is a mass shooting.
Irrelevant if its gangs or not.

I realise the "official" definition is that but........

If you define it that way you produce a distortion of the causes of the events which hit the headlines and are of the most concern to the majority of people.

It's the large scale events which attract the attention. Ones where automatic weapons are used in schools, churches, malls or nightclubs to mow people down indiscriminately.

Smaller events involving inter gang rivalries and domestic violence, whilst of great concern, cannot be considered in the same category. They have different causes and are committed by different people.

So we need to separate them to try to produce any meaningful solutions.

Large scale mass shootings in the USA are committed almost exclusively by white men.

By the way you will recall what Mark Twain said about "Lies, damn lies and statistics".

It seems quite appropriate given another comment!

Edited by Wisbech Eagle (08 Aug 2019 6.05pm)

 

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View Teddy Eagle's Profile Teddy Eagle Flag 08 Aug 19 6.11pm Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I realise the "official" definition is that but........

If you define it that way you produce a distortion of the causes of the events which hit the headlines and are of the most concern to the majority of people.

It's the large scale events which attract the attention. Ones where automatic weapons are used in schools, churches, malls or nightclubs to mow people down indiscriminately.

Smaller events involving inter gang rivalries and domestic violence, whilst of great concern, cannot be considered in the same category. They have different causes and are committed by different people.

So we need to separate them to try to produce any meaningful solutions.

Large scale mass shootings in the USA are committed almost exclusively by white men.

By the way you will recall what Mark Twain said about "Lies, damn lies and statistics".

It seems quite appropriate given another comment!

Edited by Wisbech Eagle (08 Aug 2019 6.05pm)

There is no difference to the victims or their families. There is no separate solution to either problem while guns are easily available.

 

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