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December 14 2019 7.04pm

Grenfell - who's to blame

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View ex hibitionist's Profile ex hibitionist Flag Hastings 30 Oct 19 11.36am Send a Private Message to ex hibitionist Add ex hibitionist as a friend

I went to Health and Safety training with a trade union about a year ago, and one official had an encyclopaedic knowledge of all the regulations - apparently in the H&S Act of 1974 the laws, codes of practice and guidance are under three separate categories (as in all Acts of Parliament) but the 'guidance' is not legally binding - all the construction interests involved over time have lobbied MPs to put the codes of practice requirements into the guidance section so that they are no longer legally binding. This is why setting up the official enquiry so the Fire Service are investigated a year before the MPs are in part two of the enquiry is a stich up and a smoke screen - it's the people who altered the law to make that cladding legal who are responsible, all any self-respecting journalist need do is go back through Hansard to find all those secondary legislation committees who changed the law, who arranged and populated these committees and who may have been lobbying them and you'll find the real culprits - that's the context, bit too big maybe, the fire service were poor, but the way it's being presented to the public is a smoke screen.

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 30 Oct 19 11.44am Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by ex hibitionist

I went to Health and Safety training with a trade union about a year ago, and one official had an encyclopaedic knowledge of all the regulations - apparently in the H&S Act of 1974 the laws, codes of practice and guidance are under three separate categories (as in all Acts of Parliament) but the 'guidance' is not legally binding - all the construction interests involved over time have lobbied MPs to put the codes of practice requirements into the guidance section so that they are no longer legally binding. This is why setting up the official enquiry so the Fire Service are investigated a year before the MPs are in part two of the enquiry is a stich up and a smoke screen - it's the people who altered the law to make that cladding legal who are responsible, all any self-respecting journalist need do is go back through Hansard to find all those secondary legislation committees who changed the law, who arranged and populated these committees and who may have been lobbying them and you'll find the real culprits - that's the context, bit too big maybe, the fire service were poor, but the way it's being presented to the public is a smoke screen.

It's hard to disagree with this post.

The families wanted someone to blame and the enquiry has provided them.

 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 30 Oct 19 12.15pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

I would hope that as a result of this enquiry all the various safety regulations and checks are brought together in one place with a clear chain of command over responsibility.

I would also prefer the Fire Brigade to have responsibility for annual safety checks. Part of the issue here is that the response of the Fire brigade on the night was based on assumption about the adequacy of the fire systems in the block, assumptions that were flawed.

If the Fire Brigade has annual responsibility at the very least they can check their own report when responding to an incident.

In this case outsourcing has proved to be a disaster. The safety checks were outsourced and the council outsourced responsibility for property management in short everybody passes the buck.

 


One more point

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View PalazioVecchio's Profile PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 30 Oct 19 12.22pm Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend

Blame ? Whoever wouldn't pay the money for the upkeep.

Just like with a dangerous car.

 


from the Etihad, Emirates, Molyneux, London Stadium, turf moor & Anfield to Old Trafford.....Raptors on the Road

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 30 Oct 19 2.30pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

Blame ? Whoever wouldn't pay the money for the upkeep.

Just like with a dangerous car.

Yes but don't forget the block underwent a 10m refurbishment, obviously that money was not spent wisely.

 


One more point

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View Matov's Profile Matov Flag 30 Oct 19 3.42pm Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

Originally posted by ex hibitionist
This is why setting up the official enquiry so the Fire Service are investigated a year before the MPs are in part two of the enquiry is a stich up and a smoke screen - it's the people who altered the law to make that cladding legal who are responsible, all any self-respecting journalist need do is go back through Hansard to find all those secondary legislation committees who changed the law, who arranged and populated these committees and who may have been lobbying them and you'll find the real culprits - that's the context, bit too big maybe, the fire service were poor, but the way it's being presented to the public is a smoke screen.

Beyond a smoke screen. An utter disgrace. It has been sickening to listen to politicians line up to slate the fire-brigrade today. One of the most disgusting spectacles in British politics ever.

The policy of telling people to stay put made perfect sense. Each flat has a one-hour fire door, the lifts cannot be used in event of an emergency and you need to keep the stairs empty so that the fire brigade can use them. What they never counted on was the entire building bring turned into a giant f***ing torch by that cladding.

And this is a stitch-up of monumental proportions.

The only person I have seen asking the relevant question was from a housing association that had, in the previous week, used the self-same cladding. He was holding up the relevant safety certificates and posing the only question that needed posing. Why was that cladding deemed safe one day and not the next?

No cladding, no Grenfall tragedy. That simple.

How this enquiry is being handled stinks. Utterly reeks of everything that is wrong with our political system.

Seriously tempted to buy a cake tomorrow and take it our local fire-station. Just to say thank you for the fact that those boys and girls will put their lives on the line to save others. That is real sacrifice and duty. Not those c***s up in Westminster. f*** them all.

 

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View georgenorman's Profile georgenorman Flag 30 Oct 19 5.28pm Send a Private Message to georgenorman Add georgenorman as a friend

How is Ms Cotton still in her job? She said earlier today that it would be "very difficult to draw that conclusion" when asked if she agreed with the report saying that lives would have been saved had the building been evacuated earlier.

 

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View daven's Profile daven Flag 30 Oct 19 6.51pm Send a Private Message to daven Add daven as a friend

Does anybody know where the fridge freezer that was the source of the fire came from. People who are on benefits or low incomes would be tempted to aquire electrical goods that are dangerous.

 

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View YT's Profile YT Flag Oxford 30 Oct 19 7.58pm Send a Private Message to YT Add YT as a friend

Originally posted by daven

Does anybody know where the fridge freezer that was the source of the fire came from. People who are on benefits or low incomes would be tempted to aquire electrical goods that are dangerous.

For goodness sake, electrical fires happen all the time and all over the place; even in posh houses.

 


Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 30 Oct 19 8.06pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by daven

Does anybody know where the fridge freezer that was the source of the fire came from. People who are on benefits or low incomes would be tempted to aquire electrical goods that are dangerous.

Apparently the report clears the owner of any wrong doing.

After Grenfall I bought a new fridge freezer I read up on the best buys on Which magazine. It was disturbing reading Which failed 200+ models because they did not meet the fire safety standards all of them were on sale by the major retailers. I noticed that when I bought the one they recommended there were lots on special offer, guess what, they were the failed products which the retailers were getting rid of.

Something stinks when you could still buy them.

 


One more point

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag Chatham 30 Oct 19 8.17pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

Apparently the report clears the owner of any wrong doing.

After Grenfall I bought a new fridge freezer I read up on the best buys on Which magazine. It was disturbing reading Which failed 200+ models because they did not meet the fire safety standards all of them were on sale by the major retailers. I noticed that when I bought the one they recommended there were lots on special offer, guess what, they were the failed products which the retailers were getting rid of.

Something stinks when you could still buy them.

I doubt that 200 on sale fridges failed safety standards.
Maybe not as high a standard as they could be or as efficient but really!

 

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View ex hibitionist's Profile ex hibitionist Flag Hastings 30 Oct 19 8.31pm Send a Private Message to ex hibitionist Add ex hibitionist as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

I doubt that 200 on sale fridges failed safety standards.
Maybe not as high a standard as they could be or as efficient but really!

no offence but if I'm after consumer friendly information I think most people would take Which over your good self

 

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