You are here: Home > Message Board > News & Politics > Grenfell - who's to blame
December 10 2019 7.36pm

Grenfell - who's to blame

Previous Topic | Next Topic


Page 4 of 6 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 >

 

View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag Chatham 05 Nov 19 2.25pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by ASCPFC

I want to know if it turns out that someone had about 15 plugs from one socket and the fire was caused by a short - will it still be everyone else's fault? Particularly if it was then delayed in being reported?
Lack of any type of personal responsibility rife these days. No doubt though, even if something like that caused the fire - we won't be told.
Obviously the cladding spread the fire but it had to start somewhere. Just a thought.

Careful there mate.
You will get called all sorts for being sensible.
I feel your frustration though tbh.
And yes personal blame is not allowed due to the fact that.....
No I wont sorry.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View W12's Profile W12 Flag 05 Nov 19 2.55pm Send a Private Message to W12 Add W12 as a friend

We used to call these things tragic accidents because that's what they were.

Now it's just an exercise in apportioning blame depending on whose side you are on.

That cultural shift is what happens when you consistently tell people that they part of a victim hierarchy perpetuated by evil white men.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View DanH's Profile DanH Flag SW2 05 Nov 19 2.59pm Send a Private Message to DanH Add DanH as a friend

Originally posted by W12

We used to call these things tragic accidents because that's what they were.

Now it's just an exercise in apportioning blame depending on whose side you are on.

That cultural shift is what happens when you consistently tell people that they part of a victim hierarchy perpetuated by evil white men.

So you shouldn't try to get to the bottom of why things happen?

 


Tw@tter:

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View sickboy's Profile sickboy Flag Deal or Croydon 05 Nov 19 3.01pm Send a Private Message to sickboy Add sickboy as a friend

Originally posted by W12

We used to call these things tragic accidents because that's what they were.

Now it's just an exercise in apportioning blame depending on whose side you are on.

That cultural shift is what happens when you consistently tell people that they part of a victim hierarchy perpetuated by evil white men.

No such thing as accidents anymore.
They are now incidents, as accident implies nobody is to blame, when in reality someone is always responsible. Yup, bollox i know.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 05 Nov 19 3.27pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Anyone who works in the public sector is always on a hiding to nothing.

What I detest is that proportion of the middle and higher classes who would never let their kids work in these jobs yet are full of contempt for these services.....I'm thinking especially of those in the media and political classes.

While I have huge problems with how politicised our Police is now....largely that's a politicised management problem and if you work in the public sector you are a force for good in society....response teams are obviously very important people.

But when things go wrong we know that there are plenty of awful people who will hang you out to dry as fast as they can.

Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Nov 2019 3.50pm)

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View W12's Profile W12 Flag 05 Nov 19 3.39pm Send a Private Message to W12 Add W12 as a friend

Originally posted by DanH

So you shouldn't try to get to the bottom of why things happen?

I didn't say you shouldn't work out how to avoid this happening in the future. That is almost the exact opposite of just finding someone to blame.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View ex hibitionist's Profile ex hibitionist Flag Hastings 05 Nov 19 9.11pm Send a Private Message to ex hibitionist Add ex hibitionist as a friend

Originally posted by W12

We used to call these things tragic accidents because that's what they were.

Now it's just an exercise in apportioning blame depending on whose side you are on.

That cultural shift is what happens when you consistently tell people that they part of a victim hierarchy perpetuated by evil white men.

it was a tragic accident that happened because of the cladding, you are bringing race into it, isn't the issue the rich crapping on the poor ... 'evil white men?!' … what has the racial (and sexual) demographic of the culprits or victims got to do with this? there is a clear undertone to your comment which betrays some fantasy idea that the complaint is based in the inability of a coloured underclass who can't afford a better place to live - maybe they should be grateful they had any cladding at all, maybe if there's a similar fire that kills a load of plumbers from Essex you'll be able to see more clearly.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 05 Nov 19 9.30pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Simple answer is Eric Pickles and our very own Gavin Barwell.

The Lakanal House coroner's report was largely ignored.

The fire spread in a way it should not have done.

[Link]

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 05 Nov 19 9.43pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by ex hibitionist

it was a tragic accident that happened because of the cladding, you are bringing race into it, isn't the issue the rich crapping on the poor ... 'evil white men?!' … what has the racial (and sexual) demographic of the culprits or victims got to do with this? there is a clear undertone to your comment which betrays some fantasy idea that the complaint is based in the inability of a coloured underclass who can't afford a better place to live - maybe they should be grateful they had any cladding at all, maybe if there's a similar fire that kills a load of plumbers from Essex you'll be able to see more clearly.

From what I've seen most of the commentary about race with this tragedy has been from leftist commentators.

Who on the left complained about that connection and only focused upon the regulations and cladding?

Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Nov 2019 9.45pm)

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag Chatham 05 Nov 19 10.30pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by ex hibitionist

it was a tragic accident that happened because of the cladding, you are bringing race into it, isn't the issue the rich crapping on the poor ... 'evil white men?!' … what has the racial (and sexual) demographic of the culprits or victims got to do with this? there is a clear undertone to your comment which betrays some fantasy idea that the complaint is based in the inability of a coloured underclass who can't afford a better place to live - maybe they should be grateful they had any cladding at all, maybe if there's a similar fire that kills a load of plumbers from Essex you'll be able to see more clearly.

Grenfell was multi coloured.
Afford a better place to live!
Reports I've read say how much they loved living there, not forgetting a lot dont want to leave the area.
The cladding passed the relevant standards required at the time.
It takes disasters for changes.
That's a sad fact.
Look at history and most changes for our safety are because of this fact.
Unfortunatly grenfell was a very freak and extremely rare event.
A perfect storm involving all the factors.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 05 Nov 19 10.51pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

Grenfell was multi coloured.
Afford a better place to live!
Reports I've read say how much they loved living there, not forgetting a lot dont want to leave the area.
The cladding passed the relevant standards required at the time.
It takes disasters for changes.
That's a sad fact.
Look at history and most changes for our safety are because of this fact.
Unfortunatly grenfell was a very freak and extremely rare event.
A perfect storm involving all the factors.

But not unexpected or unpredictable. See my earlier post. A Coroner had already warned us that this could happen. It wasn’t just about cladding, there were many factors.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View dollardays's Profile dollardays Flag 06 Nov 19 1.59am Send a Private Message to dollardays Add dollardays as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

Grenfell was multi coloured.
Afford a better place to live!
Reports I've read say how much they loved living there, not forgetting a lot dont want to leave the area.
The cladding passed the relevant standards required at the time.
It takes disasters for changes.
That's a sad fact.
Look at history and most changes for our safety are because of this fact.
Unfortunatly grenfell was a very freak and extremely rare event.
A perfect storm involving all the factors.

In retrospect it's clear that the cladding was entirely inadequate (along with regulations) and essentially turned a block of flats into a potential tomb. I agree though, that until something terrible happens it's all theoretical and 'nothing to see'.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply

 

Page 4 of 6 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 >

Previous Topic | Next Topic

You are here: Home > Message Board > News & Politics > Grenfell - who's to blame