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December 14 2019 4.07pm

Grenfell - who's to blame

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Online Flag Chatham 02 Nov 19 10.22pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by dollardays

The fact that it even happened in the first place. Okay, saying that 'nothing' is learned may be overly negative, but 'we will learn lessons from x' is a daily occurrence on our screens. There is always in life far more brushing under the carpet and diverting blame than there ever is learning.

More so in our very own individual lives outside of the establishment.
How many times have you said
"I'm never drinking again"
Mistakes were made with fatal consequences but revenge isnt the answer.
More people are killed on the roads every week than in grenfell.
Trevor Philip's made a point on the purge program I saw earlier on sky.
He questioned if the fact that so many people didnt speak in one language possibly contributed to some of the chaos experienced in the tower.
Food for thought.

 

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View dollardays's Profile dollardays Flag 03 Nov 19 12.17am Send a Private Message to dollardays Add dollardays as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

More so in our very own individual lives outside of the establishment.
How many times have you said
"I'm never drinking again"
Mistakes were made with fatal consequences but revenge isnt the answer.
More people are killed on the roads every week than in grenfell.
Trevor Philip's made a point on the purge program I saw earlier on sky.
He questioned if the fact that so many people didnt speak in one language possibly contributed to some of the chaos experienced in the tower.
Food for thought.

I feel like it's also important to have answers to questions. 'If I'm in this situation what would I do?' There was shades of 9/11 to this in that people were told to 'stay put' and due to the one off nature of the event and with little else to go on, many did just that. If I ever find myself in a situation like this I'll be bolting for the exit.

 

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Online Flag Chatham 03 Nov 19 7.07am Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by dollardays

I feel like it's also important to have answers to questions. 'If I'm in this situation what would I do?' There was shades of 9/11 to this in that people were told to 'stay put' and due to the one off nature of the event and with little else to go on, many did just that. If I ever find myself in a situation like this I'll be bolting for the exit.

But you would understand an instruction if it was to stay put or leave though.
Many of these people didnt understand the language.
That could have been a contributing factor in how they reacted.

 

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View chris123's Profile chris123 Online Flag hove actually 03 Nov 19 7.57am Send a Private Message to chris123 Add chris123 as a friend

Originally posted by dollardays

There's plenty of blame to go around but the pattern is that it's always innocent people that pay the price.. and that nobody is ever held to account, and nothing ever learned.

And borne by the fact that there other buildings with the same or similar cladding caught in inertia.

 

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View ex hibitionist's Profile ex hibitionist Flag Hastings 03 Nov 19 11.50am Send a Private Message to ex hibitionist Add ex hibitionist as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

More so in our very own individual lives outside of the establishment.
How many times have you said
"I'm never drinking again"
Mistakes were made with fatal consequences but revenge isnt the answer.
More people are killed on the roads every week than in grenfell.
Trevor Philip's made a point on the purge program I saw earlier on sky.
He questioned if the fact that so many people didnt speak in one language possibly contributed to some of the chaos experienced in the tower.
Food for thought.

Trevor Phillips has done well to rein in some of the political correctness gone mad stuff which even unabashed liberals like myself are finding hard to take, esp the extreme trans stuff and people wanting to ban dressing up as Pocahontus at fancy dress parties in case native americans take offence, but seeing this I wonder if he is taking the Melanie Phillips route of lefty turning into daily mail columnist, the language issue is hardly an issue where this is concerned, its about what happens if there are not enough checks and balances to stop crooked business and crooked politicians doing grubby deals with indifference to their consequences

 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 03 Nov 19 12.56pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

This is nothing new but I have noticed recently that when we have this big enquiries all sorts of people come crawling out of the woodwork looking for a payday err I mean claiming to represent the community.

That certainly seems to be the case with Grenfall all sorts of people were turning up saying that they had to be heard and whipping up the locals.

I wonder how many millions have been spent on Lawyers fees. It seems these days you can't have an public enquiry without everybody being represented by a lawyer all at the taxpayers expense of course.

Nice work if you can get it.


 


One more point

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View dollardays's Profile dollardays Flag 03 Nov 19 7.10pm Send a Private Message to dollardays Add dollardays as a friend

Originally posted by chris123

And borne by the fact that there other buildings with the same or similar cladding caught in inertia.

Exactly. It's always someone elses problem, and if we get a Grenfell repeat they will no doubt be plenty more of reports and fingerpointing.. and little action.

 

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View chris123's Profile chris123 Online Flag hove actually 04 Nov 19 10.03am Send a Private Message to chris123 Add chris123 as a friend

Originally posted by dollardays

Exactly. It's always someone elses problem, and if we get a Grenfell repeat they will no doubt be plenty more of reports and fingerpointing.. and little action.

However, Moore-Bick’s report reveals that senior brigade officers were shown a slide presentation about the risks to “Tall Building Facades” in October 2016, eight months before the Grenfell tragedy. The document outlined a series of fires in Britain and overseas where flames had spread due to combustible cladding.

Cotton was in charge of safety at the time of the presentation, but admitted to the inquiry that she had not seen it.

The year before they'd been a presentation on the risks posed by Tall Building Facades to senior brigade officers. From the paper yesterday - Moore-Bick states in his report: “Even the commissioner herself, who had been in charge of safety and assurance at the LFB at the time of the Tall Building Facades slide presentation in 2016, admitted she was unfamiliar with it at the time of the Grenfell Tower fire. She could not explain why its circulation had been limited to a small group of fire engineers.”

 

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View dollardays's Profile dollardays Flag 05 Nov 19 11.53am Send a Private Message to dollardays Add dollardays as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

But you would understand an instruction if it was to stay put or leave though.
Many of these people didnt understand the language.
That could have been a contributing factor in how they reacted.

I think if you can't understand instructions and there is a huge fire, your inclination generally would be to leave. So not speaking English might not have been a drawback in that situation. Understanding the instructions to stay and putting too much stock in that unfortunately likely resulted in deaths.


 

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Online Flag Chatham 05 Nov 19 1.13pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by dollardays

I think if you can't understand instructions and there is a huge fire, your inclination generally would be to leave. So not speaking English might not have been a drawback in that situation. Understanding the instructions to stay and putting too much stock in that unfortunately likely resulted in deaths.


Instructions face to face yes but shouting to someone through smoke,,doors and around corners.
That's likely a probable breakdown point.

 

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 05 Nov 19 2.14pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

I want to know if it turns out that someone had about 15 plugs from one socket and the fire was caused by a short - will it still be everyone else's fault? Particularly if it was then delayed in being reported?
Lack of any type of personal responsibility rife these days. No doubt though, even if something like that caused the fire - we won't be told.
Obviously the cladding spread the fire but it had to start somewhere. Just a thought.

 


Red and Blue Army!

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View Fatherken's Profile Fatherken Flag 05 Nov 19 2.23pm Send a Private Message to Fatherken Add Fatherken as a friend

The blame for Grenfell is modern day living .
We all want thing things cheaper , we buy things on line and moan about high street shops closing , we buy supermarket bake beans they are the same as Heinz but are cheaper and thinner but are still bake beans . This also happens in construction , surveyors will go for the cheaper material , it complies to the said standard [ as do bake beans ] but not as good . With food and clothes this make no different but in construction we have all unfortunately seen the consequent's .

 

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