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October 21 2020 11.15am

Breaking the law,

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View The Dolphin's Profile The Dolphin Flag 24 Sep 20 5.43pm Send a Private Message to The Dolphin Add The Dolphin as a friend

Masks are without doubt not perfect but if you cough or splutter wearing one the damage is way less than without one.
Ask ten Scientists about masks and half will say they work and half the other way.
I don't like them but I wear them when required.
Why break the law for something that doesn't really affect you?
The ones who will complain most when locked down are those that flout the rules - just stupid in my opinion.

 

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View Eaglecoops's Profile Eaglecoops Online Flag CR3 24 Sep 20 6.37pm Send a Private Message to Eaglecoops Add Eaglecoops as a friend

Originally posted by The Dolphin

Masks are without doubt not perfect but if you cough or splutter wearing one the damage is way less than without one.
Ask ten Scientists about masks and half will say they work and half the other way.
I don't like them but I wear them when required.
Why break the law for something that doesn't really affect you?
The ones who will complain most when locked down are those that flout the rules - just stupid in my opinion.

Iíve got no intention of breaking the law in this respect, I just donít believe it works and I find face coverings extremely uncomfortable to wear.

My opinion on this is if there is something that will make people feel better about themselves and safer (regardless of whether it is effective or not) then they will probably introduce it.

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 24 Sep 20 7.28pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

This is the only relevant point made in this thread.

Our integrity has been, up to this point, our major stock in trade. What else do have we got that others don't? Keeping our word is why people trust us.

Throw that away and we are in a race to the bottom. There is much more at stake here than Brexit. If there is a problem with the agreement it should have been identified before. Now we must live with it and deal with any issues that arise within it or via further negotiations.

Whether the current batch of MPs have sufficient integrity themselves to stand up and be counted on the side of the righteous remains to be seen but the previous one's all do don't they?


Crap.

Do you think the EU negotiate with gloves on?
This is about self determination. Something you wanted to deny the people of this country.

You wanted to reverse a democratic vote on Brexit and now you have the gall to express outrage over this?

 

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 24 Sep 20 10.20pm Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Originally posted by Eaglecoops

Iíve got no intention of breaking the law in this respect, I just donít believe it works and I find face coverings extremely uncomfortable to wear.

My opinion on this is if there is something that will make people feel better about themselves and safer (regardless of whether it is effective or not) then they will probably introduce it.

There's plenty of evidence to demonstrate that masks limit and spread of covid-19 (but real life outbreak situations, and studies). They may even limit the severity if you still get it. Of course some masks protect you better than others so that can factor in but as a general idea wearing a face mask during a pandemic isn't the worst decision a nation of people can make.

In Asian countries such as Hong Kong they learned lessons from SARS and so just tend to just get on with following basic instruction designed to help others. Countries like Thailand too, Japan, China (ironically). They're all breezing through this in comparison to most European nations due to their adherence to basic ideas of keeping others safe. Consequently they aren't tasked with some of the tough decisions we are.


 

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View Tim Gypsy Hill '64's Profile Tim Gypsy Hill '64 Flag Stoke sub normal 25 Sep 20 1.28am Send a Private Message to Tim Gypsy Hill '64 Add Tim Gypsy Hill '64 as a friend

Originally posted by BlueJay

There's plenty of evidence to demonstrate that masks limit and spread of covid-19 (but real life outbreak situations, and studies). They may even limit the severity if you still get it. Of course some masks protect you better than others so that can factor in but as a general idea wearing a face mask during a pandemic isn't the worst decision a nation of people can make.

In Asian countries such as Hong Kong they learned lessons from SARS and so just tend to just get on with following basic instruction designed to help others. Countries like Thailand too, Japan, China (ironically). They're all breezing through this in comparison to most European nations due to their adherence to basic ideas of keeping others safe. Consequently they aren't tasked with some of the tough decisions we are.


I'm sorry to pull you up again, but there really isn't evidence to demonstrate that masks limit the spread of C-19. There are no studies of it either. The current consensus around wearing masks is purely to make the scared feel less scared. You posted some speculation on reducing the severity by the wearing of masks, which was proclaimed by it's authors to be speculation.

Likewise, there is no study that lockdown limits the spread. Or that no lockdown gets us through the pandemic more quickly, or with more or less deaths. Or that demonstrates that not wearing masks creates herd immunity.

So don't post such unless you can back it up with scientific facts.

 


Systematically dragged down by the lawmakers

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 25 Sep 20 2.07am Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Originally posted by Tim Gypsy Hill '64

I'm sorry to pull you up again, but there really isn't evidence to demonstrate that masks limit the spread of C-19. There are no studies of it either. The current consensus around wearing masks is purely to make the scared feel less scared. You posted some speculation on reducing the severity by the wearing of masks, which was proclaimed by it's authors to be speculation.

Likewise, there is no study that lockdown limits the spread. Or that no lockdown gets us through the pandemic more quickly, or with more or less deaths. Or that demonstrates that not wearing masks creates herd immunity.

So don't post such unless you can back it up with scientific facts.

Putting "the current consensus is" before saying something entirely subjective doesn't mean that it emerges as a universal truth.

While studies show visors to be mostly pointless, there are various studies and virus spreading instances that suggest that masks limited covid-19 spread. The viral load point was based on recent case studies and animal studies. You actually 'speculated' yourself in your previous message in which you were aghast at speculation so...!? I've posted all of these and more over time, you didn't bother replying to follow up posts so do your own homework. I am ever happy to send them by PM to anyone who displays a more balanced approach to the subject. Nowhere did I or another say that 'viral load' in relation to covid-19 is fact either. Simply that there is at least some reason to believe that it might hold up and its being explored so may be of interest. I don't need a lecture on when or what I can post but many thanks for your concern.

As for a general point about masks, we can all hum and haw about the extent that masks help (though its clearly laughable to claim that masks don't help at all), but when push comes to shove I'd rather be someone who did my bit through doing something so simple that has sound scientific and logical rationale behind it, than be someone who killed others off while telling everyone how right they are about everything.

Maybe when you make your lockdown points you feel that everyone has bought into a package deal of beliefs (like yourself) and that I believe everything you imagine I must by default. Sadly not.

-I've never said nor do I believe that lockdowns get us through this any quicker. That would make little sense.

- Lockdown clearly eventually reduces spread while the lockdown is ongoing, unless you think the current resurgence is a staggering coincidence. Is it worth having another lockdown though? Probably not in my view due to the impact on the economy. Hope this helps.

Some have these abstract ideas of 'you can't convince me personally in this very moment that I should be wearing a mask so that's that'. Of course in reality if someone actually had covid and was wheezing away in close vicinity to you and you had an option for them to be wearing a mask or not, you would instantly elect for them to be wearing one. I'm more interested in being helpful than a pointless back and forth so that's the end of this particular conversation. Have a happy and healthy weekend.

Edited by BlueJay (25 Sep 2020 3.08pm)

 

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag Chatham 25 Sep 20 7.53pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by BlueJay

Putting "the current consensus is" before saying something entirely subjective doesn't mean that it emerges as a universal truth.

While studies show visors to be mostly pointless, there are various studies and virus spreading instances that suggest that masks limited covid-19 spread. The viral load point was based on recent case studies and animal studies. You actually 'speculated' yourself in your previous message in which you were aghast at speculation so...!? I've posted all of these and more over time, you didn't bother replying to follow up posts so do your own homework. I am ever happy to send them by PM to anyone who displays a more balanced approach to the subject. Nowhere did I or another say that 'viral load' in relation to covid-19 is fact either. Simply that there is at least some reason to believe that it might hold up and its being explored so may be of interest. I don't need a lecture on when or what I can post but many thanks for your concern.

As for a general point about masks, we can all hum and haw about the extent that masks help (though its clearly laughable to claim that masks don't help at all), but when push comes to shove I'd rather be someone who did my bit through doing something so simple that has sound scientific and logical rationale behind it, than be someone who killed others off while telling everyone how right they are about everything.

Maybe when you make your lockdown points you feel that everyone has bought into a package deal of beliefs (like yourself) and that I believe everything you imagine I must by default. Sadly not.

-I've never said nor do I believe that lockdowns get us through this any quicker. That would make little sense.

- Lockdown clearly eventually reduces spread while the lockdown is ongoing, unless you think the current resurgence is a staggering coincidence. Is it worth having another lockdown though? Probably not in my view due to the impact on the economy. Hope this helps.

Some have these abstract ideas of 'you can't convince me personally in this very moment that I should be wearing a mask so that's that'. Of course in reality if someone actually had covid and was wheezing away in close vicinity to you and you had an option for them to be wearing a mask or not, you would instantly elect for them to be wearing one. I'm more interested in being helpful than a pointless back and forth so that's the end of this particular conversation. Have a happy and healthy weekend.

Edited by BlueJay (25 Sep 2020 3.08pm)

The effect on the economy is containable.
For whatever reason finance and economies rise and fall. The help about this time is phenominal and unprecedented. That is worldwide and even in third world countries help is available for the majority.
It seems we as a species do have a heart! The health situation is the priority end of. Without our health what use is money.

 

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View Tim Gypsy Hill '64's Profile Tim Gypsy Hill '64 Flag Stoke sub normal 25 Sep 20 8.41pm Send a Private Message to Tim Gypsy Hill '64 Add Tim Gypsy Hill '64 as a friend

Originally posted by BlueJay

<snip>

Edited by BlueJay (25 Sep 2020 3.08pm)

Good grief!

I'll say it again. There is no "evidence to demonstrate that masks limit and spread of covid-19". There is an assumption that it may do so, but no evidence.

Also, you make the assunption that I am anti mask wearing. I wear a mask as prescribed by emergency law. I happen to believe they may help to a small extent. But to keep stating that there is evidence is just untrue.

And please stop being so aggressive and condescending.

 


Systematically dragged down by the lawmakers

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 25 Sep 20 8.42pm Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Wonderful. Thanks for sharing your view. Time to move on Timmy.

 

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View Tim Gypsy Hill '64's Profile Tim Gypsy Hill '64 Flag Stoke sub normal 25 Sep 20 8.46pm Send a Private Message to Tim Gypsy Hill '64 Add Tim Gypsy Hill '64 as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

The effect on the economy is containable.
For whatever reason finance and economies rise and fall. The help about this time is phenominal and unprecedented. That is worldwide and even in third world countries help is available for the majority.
It seems we as a species do have a heart! The health situation is the priority end of. Without our health what use is money.

The effect on the economy is going to kill a lot more people than the virus. The financial aid to companies this time is going to see far more job losses than furlough. Corporations might be able to survive, but smaller buisinesses will have to get rid of staff, or close down. Without money, there is worse health. Check out third world countries.......

 


Systematically dragged down by the lawmakers

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View Tim Gypsy Hill '64's Profile Tim Gypsy Hill '64 Flag Stoke sub normal 25 Sep 20 8.47pm Send a Private Message to Tim Gypsy Hill '64 Add Tim Gypsy Hill '64 as a friend

Originally posted by BlueJay

Wonderful. Thanks for sharing your view. Time to move on Timmy.

Can you not debate in an adult manner?

 


Systematically dragged down by the lawmakers

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 25 Sep 20 8.49pm Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Originally posted by Tim Gypsy Hill '64

Can you not debate in an adult manner?

Ask yourself that question. Now as I said move on.

 

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