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View silvertop's Profile silvertop Flag Portishead 17 Mar 21 1.54pm Send a Private Message to silvertop Add silvertop as a friend

Originally posted by ASCPFC

With the laughable and revealing comment that he offers more defensively. I laughed but the football has not been funny.

I generally enjoy your posts but that is a bit harsh.

When he came on at st James park CB pressed in attack bought free kicks in the attacking half and slowed down the game thereby helping to minimise any action in the defensive half. That is he defended from the front.

Perhaps mateta isn't as good at that role.

 

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jeeagles Flag 17 Mar 21 2.04pm

Originally posted by silvertop

I generally enjoy your posts but that is a bit harsh.

When he came on at st James park CB pressed in attack bought free kicks in the attacking half and slowed down the game thereby helping to minimise any action in the defensive half. That is he defended from the front.

Perhaps mateta isn't as good at that role.

He normally seems to be routed to the centre spot which could mean 3 things.

1) He's under instruction
2) He's stupid and lazy
3) Both.

 

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 17 Mar 21 2.05pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by silvertop

I generally enjoy your posts but that is a bit harsh.

When he came on at st James park CB pressed in attack bought free kicks in the attacking half and slowed down the game thereby helping to minimise any action in the defensive half. That is he defended from the front.

Perhaps mateta isn't as good at that role.

Is it that harsh? I think defending from the front is a complete exaggeration of how we play. Defending from the front requires attacking intent. If you're all in your own half most of the game it's not defending from the front.
I'm perhaps harsh, but consider this, I don't disagree with Willo that Benteke defends corners. Is that a reason to pick him? Not in my opinion.
As for the hold up play - considering the amount Mateta has played, I could just as well say he's a super striker, he's scored a goal on his only full appearance - I'm not saying that, but it's the same thing. We haven't had long enough to judge him. We have all had long enough experience of Benteke.

 


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View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 17 Mar 21 4.01pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by ASCPFC

On this one I just don't care. The defenders can defend corners. The strikers can score. Obviously not if you're Benteke, however. How do we know anything about Mateta and ball retention? Has he even played 90 minutes yet? If he's not actually a better player than Benteke he may as well give up now and change career.

Or take corners.

 


COYP

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View Elphers40's Profile Elphers40 Flag Northants 17 Mar 21 10.27pm Send a Private Message to Elphers40 Add Elphers40 as a friend

Originally posted by Willo

Matete did get on the pitch at Tottenham with about 15 mins remaining with the game basically lost.
Hodgson trusts Benteke more than Matete and in 'Tight' games leaves Benteke on the field of play.

Less about trust and more about defensive qualities! Kinda understandable if you need to hang on to a lead with 10 minutes to go - but starting with a striker who has such a poor scoring record and on top of that not playing to his strengths week after week! Yikes!
Add into the equation his contract ending whilst our Future striker (who does score goals) warms the bench - and it makes for a very odd decision to keep playing him. (Or extremely stubborn)!

 

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View HKOwen's Profile HKOwen Flag Hong Kong 17 Mar 21 10.45pm Send a Private Message to HKOwen Add HKOwen as a friend

Defending set pieces and corners especially requires a team effort, to suggest defenders only do the defending is very bizarre.

That logic means defenders do not go up to try and score from attacking corners.

Basically, nonsense

Originally posted by ASCPFC

On this one I just don't care. The defenders can defend corners. The strikers can score. Obviously not if you're Benteke, however. How do we know anything about Mateta and ball retention? Has he even played 90 minutes yet? If he's not actually a better player than Benteke he may as well give up now and change career.

 


Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

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View TheBigToePunt's Profile TheBigToePunt Flag 18 Mar 21 10.00am Send a Private Message to TheBigToePunt Add TheBigToePunt as a friend

This issue of Benteke being picked for his defending has been addressed before. Roy mentioned it as part of a wider appraisal in which he clearly placed Benteke's defending second to his role in helping us start attacks, which as we all know to the point of tedium, involves playing with his back to goal - something Mateta may not be so good at.

All teams have to get up the pitch somehow. If the opponent sits back (as Man Utd and West Brom did) then we will have more of the ball and can build play in our own time. If the opponent presses us, then we either need to be good enough to pass it through them (we aren't), or bypass them. That means going from back to front quickly, and requires either a forward with pace to run behind their defence, or one who can show for the ball and hold it up.

Roy started the season with Batshuayi up top, aiming to use his pace in behind to stretch teams back, making a bit of space for Wilf to get on the ball. As we know, Batshuayi has been crap, and defeats the point of the strategy by constantly running offside, so Roy turned to Benteke, who has been OK in patches.

I get the desire to see Mateta play instead of Benteke as the former might be more likely to convert chances, but that doesn't matter if we make even less chances because we can't get up the pitch.

All of this is subject to change. Mateta may improve his hold up play. We may change our style to go direct a little less. We might somehow sign a far better forward then either of them. Who knows? The point surely is that none of these things are going to happen right now, when points are at stake.

To say Benteke plays instead of a goalscorer simply because he defends well is nonsense.

 

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View Eaglecoops's Profile Eaglecoops Flag CR3 18 Mar 21 10.12am Send a Private Message to Eaglecoops Add Eaglecoops as a friend

Originally posted by TheBigToePunt

This issue of Benteke being picked for his defending has been addressed before. Roy mentioned it as part of a wider appraisal in which he clearly placed Benteke's defending second to his role in helping us start attacks, which as we all know to the point of tedium, involves playing with his back to goal - something Mateta may not be so good at.

All teams have to get up the pitch somehow. If the opponent sits back (as Man Utd and West Brom did) then we will have more of the ball and can build play in our own time. If the opponent presses us, then we either need to be good enough to pass it through them (we aren't), or bypass them. That means going from back to front quickly, and requires either a forward with pace to run behind their defence, or one who can show for the ball and hold it up.

Roy started the season with Batshuayi up top, aiming to use his pace in behind to stretch teams back, making a bit of space for Wilf to get on the ball. As we know, Batshuayi has been crap, and defeats the point of the strategy by constantly running offside, so Roy turned to Benteke, who has been OK in patches.

I get the desire to see Mateta play instead of Benteke as the former might be more likely to convert chances, but that doesn't matter if we make even less chances because we can't get up the pitch.

All of this is subject to change. Mateta may improve his hold up play. We may change our style to go direct a little less. We might somehow sign a far better forward then either of them. Who knows? The point surely is that none of these things are going to happen right now, when points are at stake.

To say Benteke plays instead of a goalscorer simply because he defends well is nonsense.

If our style of play suits a Benteke type player then it kind of begs the question why we have wasted a load of money on two loans in Batshuyai and Mateta, neither of which play in that style.

 

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 18 Mar 21 10.27am Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by HKOwen

Defending set pieces and corners especially requires a team effort, to suggest defenders only do the defending is very bizarre.

That logic means defenders do not go up to try and score from attacking corners.

Basically, nonsense

You don't pick a striker on his ability to defend corners, end of story. Perhaps you want to defend that, that's the nonsense. You must be a computer programmer with your use of logic.

 


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View TheBigToePunt's Profile TheBigToePunt Flag 18 Mar 21 11.07am Send a Private Message to TheBigToePunt Add TheBigToePunt as a friend

Originally posted by Eaglecoops

If our style of play suits a Benteke type player then it kind of begs the question why we have wasted a load of money on two loans in Batshuyai and Mateta, neither of which play in that style.

I don't think it's to do with a forward suiting an ingrained style, it's just about player performance.

We brought in a quick forward who runs behind (Batshuayi) but he played very badly, so we used the alternative player we have (Benteke) thus dictating a slightly different way of attacking. Benetke's faults are evident, so we went for another forward who, if he proves to be good enough will, in time, play and no doubt necessitate another slight tactical tweak.

At the moment though Mateta hasn't done enough to force his way in, and that is all to do with his play outside the box which, in fairness to Hodgson, is vital to the team.

 

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View doombear's Profile doombear Flag Too far from Selhurst Park 18 Mar 21 11.10am Send a Private Message to doombear Add doombear as a friend

Originally posted by TheBigToePunt

This issue of Benteke being picked for his defending has been addressed before. Roy mentioned it as part of a wider appraisal in which he clearly placed Benteke's defending second to his role in helping us start attacks, which as we all know to the point of tedium, involves playing with his back to goal - something Mateta may not be so good at.

All teams have to get up the pitch somehow. If the opponent sits back (as Man Utd and West Brom did) then we will have more of the ball and can build play in our own time. If the opponent presses us, then we either need to be good enough to pass it through them (we aren't), or bypass them. That means going from back to front quickly, and requires either a forward with pace to run behind their defence, or one who can show for the ball and hold it up.

Roy started the season with Batshuayi up top, aiming to use his pace in behind to stretch teams back, making a bit of space for Wilf to get on the ball. As we know, Batshuayi has been crap, and defeats the point of the strategy by constantly running offside, so Roy turned to Benteke, who has been OK in patches.

I get the desire to see Mateta play instead of Benteke as the former might be more likely to convert chances, but that doesn't matter if we make even less chances because we can't get up the pitch.

All of this is subject to change. Mateta may improve his hold up play. We may change our style to go direct a little less. We might somehow sign a far better forward then either of them. Who knows? The point surely is that none of these things are going to happen right now, when points are at stake.

To say Benteke plays instead of a goalscorer simply because he defends well is nonsense.


A good post BTP. Also, to be fair to Benteke, this season, he's had just 13 starts in the PL and 9 brief sub appearances (including the famous Amex one!) for his 5 goals and 1 assist. So as you say, he's been ok; nothing more than that. Can't see us signing a 'far better forward', though - will cost too much. As for Mateta, I'm sure his time will come. It often takes time for players from abroad to settle in the PL.

As for attackers defending, the best PL teams require it, albeit a lot further up the field!

 

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 18 Mar 21 11.33am Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by doombear


A good post BTP. Also, to be fair to Benteke, this season, he's had just 13 starts in the PL and 9 brief sub appearances (including the famous Amex one!) for his 5 goals and 1 assist. So as you say, he's been ok; nothing more than that. Can't see us signing a 'far better forward', though - will cost too much. As for Mateta, I'm sure his time will come. It often takes time for players from abroad to settle in the PL.

As for attackers defending, the best PL teams require it, albeit a lot further up the field!

Mateta scored on his first start. Benteke's been missing open goals for fun for three seasons. I lost all faith with him watching him murder two tap ins against Liverpool. Wilf lost the rag too - right in front of me. We would have won with anyone else up front. 5 goals, OK, but what about the previous 40 games? It's unforgiveable.

 


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