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May 10 2021 6.18am

Baroness Shirley Williams

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View Tim Gypsy Hill '64's Profile Tim Gypsy Hill '64 Flag Stoke sub normal 15 Apr 21 9.53pm Send a Private Message to Tim Gypsy Hill '64 Add Tim Gypsy Hill '64 as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I was 29 and so far as I recall it was pretty plain sailing and regarded by most as a golden opportunity. Only those who regarded it as "us giving up our Sovereignty" seemed unhappy, and they went on being unhappy until Brexit. It was always a fake argument with only emotional consequences but there are still those who put such things above the welfare and prosperity of their fellow citizens.

I know which side of this argument Shirley Williams stood on and with her passing we have lost another voice of reason.

Now we are likely to witness the break-up of the UK, which would probably have been avoided without Brexit. Is that really a price worth paying? Political systems evolve to suit altered environments and all I ever saw from the Brexiteers was fear of progress, rather than an embrace of it. Baroness Williams must have viewed the last few years with great sadness.

The Scottish independence referendum was in 2014, so don't think you can blame the break-up of the UK on Brexit. That they had a referendum is proof of unrest in the union.

 


Systematically dragged down by the lawmakers

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 16 Apr 21 8.11pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

The system was pretty shonky in the 70ís when it was a miserable experience for all involved. Streaming meant a lot of kids were more or less abandoned. CSEs were a waste of time.

I attended a "secondary modern" school before comprehensives were introduced. I "failed" the 11+ as my parents wanted as they couldn't afford the uniform and the expectations of the grammar school. When I was a child kids like me didn't go to grammar school. They were for "posh" kids and not for those of us who lived in council houses. It continued when I reached 16 and my headmaster wanted me to go on to further education and then to University. My mother wanted me to earn, so I went to work.

I ended up doing OK but I often wonder whether I would have done even better had those chances been on offer.

So this question has to be considered in the round and whether, on balance, the greatest number achieve the greater good via a comprehensive or selective system. My own experiences inform my opinion.

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 16 Apr 21 8.14pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Tim Gypsy Hill '64

The Scottish independence referendum was in 2014, so don't think you can blame the break-up of the UK on Brexit. That they had a referendum is proof of unrest in the union.

Unrest which was rejected. In the EU referendum the Scots voted overwhelmingly to remain and it's this which appears to have swung the balance.

 

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View Teddy Eagle's Profile Teddy Eagle Flag 16 Apr 21 8.27pm Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I attended a "secondary modern" school before comprehensives were introduced. I "failed" the 11+ as my parents wanted as they couldn't afford the uniform and the expectations of the grammar school. When I was a child kids like me didn't go to grammar school. They were for "posh" kids and not for those of us who lived in council houses. It continued when I reached 16 and my headmaster wanted me to go on to further education and then to University. My mother wanted me to earn, so I went to work.

I ended up doing OK but I often wonder whether I would have done even better had those chances been on offer.

So this question has to be considered in the round and whether, on balance, the greatest number achieve the greater good via a comprehensive or selective system. My own experiences inform my opinion.

My experience was pretty similar.
As I said streaming in Comprehensive schools meant some people were more or less abandoned. As long as they didnít smash the place up they were more or less left alone.

 

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 16 Apr 21 8.56pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I attended a "secondary modern" school before comprehensives were introduced. I "failed" the 11+ as my parents wanted as they couldn't afford the uniform and the expectations of the grammar school. When I was a child kids like me didn't go to grammar school. They were for "posh" kids and not for those of us who lived in council houses. It continued when I reached 16 and my headmaster wanted me to go on to further education and then to University. My mother wanted me to earn, so I went to work.

I ended up doing OK but I often wonder whether I would have done even better had those chances been on offer.

So this question has to be considered in the round and whether, on balance, the greatest number achieve the greater good via a comprehensive or selective system. My own experiences inform my opinion.

I went to Wisbech Grammar for free. I'm from a single parent household and council flat. My scholarship was a Tory initiative. I thought there was a series about kids doing this today? Can't remember what it was called 'The Test' perhaps? I didn't used to fit in, but it was an excellent school. Gave me my first taste of Rugby, Cricket and Latin.
As a mature student, I went to university and have as many qualifications as is possible (I mean why leave?) all from an EU scholarship.
I owe my education to the Tories and to the EU. You'd think I'd be more grateful really.

Edited by ASCPFC (16 Apr 2021 8.57pm)

 


I used to put the manager's name in front of Red and Blue but got fed up with changing it. If someone cool becomes our manager then maybe..

Red and Blue Army!

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View Tim Gypsy Hill '64's Profile Tim Gypsy Hill '64 Flag Stoke sub normal 16 Apr 21 10.12pm Send a Private Message to Tim Gypsy Hill '64 Add Tim Gypsy Hill '64 as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Unrest which was rejected. In the EU referendum the Scots voted overwhelmingly to remain and it's this which appears to have swung the balance.

EU referendum Scotland result wasn't as overwhelming as you seem to think. About half a million (500k) votes separated the outcome out of the circa 4 million voters. 67% of voters turned out.

Scottish independence referendum was even closer, with the difference less than 400k, but almost 85% turnout.

It appears that Scottish people were less concerned about EU membership than UK membership.

So to try and pin the break-up of the UK on Brexit is somewhat remiss. An awful lot of the Scots are, and always were, anti English. They loathe Westminster and see English politicians as upper class toffs. Many have, quite rightly, stronger connections to Ireland than to England. It's an ancestry and a religious split, as it is in NI. So if you want to pin the break-up on anything, look no further than the church.

 


Systematically dragged down by the lawmakers

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View dannyboy1978's Profile dannyboy1978 Flag 17 Apr 21 6.48am Send a Private Message to dannyboy1978 Add dannyboy1978 as a friend

Originally posted by Tim Gypsy Hill '64

EU referendum Scotland result wasn't as overwhelming as you seem to think. About half a million (500k) votes separated the outcome out of the circa 4 million voters. 67% of voters turned out.

Scottish independence referendum was even closer, with the difference less than 400k, but almost 85% turnout.

It appears that Scottish people were less concerned about EU membership than UK membership.

So to try and pin the break-up of the UK on Brexit is somewhat remiss. An awful lot of the Scots are, and always were, anti English. They loathe Westminster and see English politicians as upper class toffs. Many have, quite rightly, stronger connections to Ireland than to England. It's an ancestry and a religious split, as it is in NI. So if you want to pin the break-up on anything, look no further than the church.

Are you suggesting that because they have stronger cultural ties with another country they should leave the union?

 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 17 Apr 21 7.55am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

My experience was pretty similar.
As I said streaming in Comprehensive schools meant some people were more or less abandoned. As long as they didnít smash the place up they were more or less left alone.

Yup in my school that lot were the gardening and pottery club, I kid you not.

Oddly enough the rest of us swots envied them at the time as they were always outside and having a good time. Still in the long run....

 


One more point

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View Teddy Eagle's Profile Teddy Eagle Flag 17 Apr 21 9.01am Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

Yup in my school that lot were the gardening and pottery club, I kid you not.

Oddly enough the rest of us swots envied them at the time as they were always outside and having a good time. Still in the long run....

...they became landscape architects and ceramics experts? Probably not.
At my school there seemed to be quite a lot of colouring in.

 

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View Tim Gypsy Hill '64's Profile Tim Gypsy Hill '64 Flag Stoke sub normal 17 Apr 21 10.19pm Send a Private Message to Tim Gypsy Hill '64 Add Tim Gypsy Hill '64 as a friend

Originally posted by dannyboy1978

Are you suggesting that because they have stronger cultural ties with another country they should leave the union?

I'm not suggesting anything. How did you come to that conclusion? Did you understand that my point was about blaming Brexit for the break-up of the UK, (which isn't currently on the cards)?

I think the pipes are calling you

 


Systematically dragged down by the lawmakers

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