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June 21 2021 2.45am

‘Educated voters’ leftward shift’

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 30 May 21 1.48pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by silvertop

Ha true. Want to join my party?

It's worth a punt. Probably get Russian funding.
You could hire buses stating 'The EU gave us Xmil a day for education and community funding. Let's get that back'. Obviously, lie about the figures.

 


I used to put the manager's name in front of Red and Blue but got fed up with changing it. If someone cool becomes our manager then maybe..

Red and Blue Army!

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 30 May 21 7.40pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by ASCPFC

The difficulty with this is that people have been fooled that somehow 'working class' is dirty, poor, down pit etc. People consider themselves middle class - which is seen as clean, office based, professional etc. The reality is the majority of people are the working poor, pretty much working to make ends meet. The working class from the 40s/50s onwards were better off than the people who think they are middle class today.
As you know, the working class could afford a house, a wife, three kids on one wage. That is as rare as hen's teeth these days. One wage families would likely be on the breadline unless they got on the property ladder before the 90s. Most people are working class, but think they are middle class. It's that centre ground again.
There's a lot more to this but don't want to bore people.

According to the Social Mobility Barometer 49% of people think they are working class. But only 14% actually fit the definition

I think you have your concepts the wrong way around ASCPFC.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 30 May 21 7.54pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by ASCPFC

The difficulty with this is that people have been fooled that somehow 'working class' is dirty, poor, down pit etc. People consider themselves middle class - which is seen as clean, office based, professional etc. The reality is the majority of people are the working poor, pretty much working to make ends meet. The working class from the 40s/50s onwards were better off than the people who think they are middle class today.
As you know, the working class could afford a house, a wife, three kids on one wage. That is as rare as hen's teeth these days. One wage families would likely be on the breadline unless they got on the property ladder before the 90s. Most people are working class, but think they are middle class. It's that centre ground again.
There's a lot more to this but don't want to bore people.

I think you make a lot of good points and it's fair to say there's quite a lot of confusion about what exactly working class means now.....with mindset coming into it as well as standard of living.

Your point about the past is a strong one....my grandfather worked as a stoker/welder in Upper Norwood, living on Gipsy Hill with a mortgage with two kids....I don't think his wife worked. Worked to enjoy his weekend at the football and social club but never had much left over from housekeeping....Labour all his life....where he lived is worth a small fortune now.

To me, it's not that complicated, If you have a nice living you aren't working class.

In reality I'm probably lower middle class, from a council estate beginning.


Edited by Stirlingsays (30 May 2021 7.58pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View HKOwen's Profile HKOwen Flag Hong Kong 31 May 21 1.14am Send a Private Message to HKOwen Add HKOwen as a friend

I think it's safe to say using " noble causes " and " Labour " in the same sentence is now properly in the rubbish bin where it belongs

 


Let's see SP and the board trying to line up for a piss in the AW toilets at half time before peddling the new stand. We're the Arthur over here and the facilities are a disgrace

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 31 May 21 7.54am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I think you make a lot of good points and it's fair to say there's quite a lot of confusion about what exactly working class means now.....with mindset coming into it as well as standard of living.

Your point about the past is a strong one....my grandfather worked as a stoker/welder in Upper Norwood, living on Gipsy Hill with a mortgage with two kids....I don't think his wife worked. Worked to enjoy his weekend at the football and social club but never had much left over from housekeeping....Labour all his life....where he lived is worth a small fortune now.

To me, it's not that complicated, If you have a nice living you aren't working class.

In reality I'm probably lower middle class, from a council estate beginning.


Edited by Stirlingsays (30 May 2021 7.58pm)

That is my feeling I know that somewhere there is an official definition of working class but in this discussion it is irrelevant.

For once I am with the feelings matter more than facts brigade, there will be millionaires who will describe themselves as working class.

So this again highlights Labour's credibility with that group. If politicians say you are middle class when you consider yourself working class why should you connect with them, they are the ones not listening.

I call myself working class I expect the experts would say no you are middle class, well don't tell me how to think or feel.

Edited by Badger11 (31 May 2021 7.56am)

 


One more point

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 31 May 21 10.03am Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

According to the Social Mobility Barometer 49% of people think they are working class. But only 14% actually fit the definition

I think you have your concepts the wrong way around ASCPFC.

Yeah, I'm totally wrong and their definition is entirely correct.

 


I used to put the manager's name in front of Red and Blue but got fed up with changing it. If someone cool becomes our manager then maybe..

Red and Blue Army!

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 31 May 21 6.18pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

That is my feeling I know that somewhere there is an official definition of working class but in this discussion it is irrelevant.

For once I am with the feelings matter more than facts brigade, there will be millionaires who will describe themselves as working class.

So this again highlights Labour's credibility with that group. If politicians say you are middle class when you consider yourself working class why should you connect with them, they are the ones not listening.

I call myself working class I expect the experts would say no you are middle class, well don't tell me how to think or feel.

Edited by Badger11 (31 May 2021 7.56am)

I tend to think that most believe they are middle class, like you say. But also claim to be working class - basically for social affect, like Maple suggests. However, I think the whole concept is basically an ongoing con trick. When we look at the distribution of wealth - we're all sharing about maybe 5%. The top 5% have the other 95%. We're not in the middle, we're all at the bottom. Of course, originally Marx but, funnily enough, Trump seemed to like to highlight these 'elites'. Which is totally off my point really, but fun.

 


I used to put the manager's name in front of Red and Blue but got fed up with changing it. If someone cool becomes our manager then maybe..

Red and Blue Army!

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 31 May 21 6.44pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

That is my feeling I know that somewhere there is an official definition of working class but in this discussion it is irrelevant.

For once I am with the feelings matter more than facts brigade, there will be millionaires who will describe themselves as working class.

So this again highlights Labour's credibility with that group. If politicians say you are middle class when you consider yourself working class why should you connect with them, they are the ones not listening.

I call myself working class I expect the experts would say no you are middle class, well don't tell me how to think or feel.

Edited by Badger11 (31 May 2021 7.56am)

'A working class hero is something to be'.

To be thought of as working class certainly does seem to be more popular than in our grandfather's hey day perhaps.

This all comes down to self identity. At the end of the day if the millionaire thinks they are working class then it isn't harming anyone.

However, they won't be qualifying for that bus pass will they.....So I suppose definitions are also valid for certain purposes.

There seem to be more definitions today, 'working poor' and 'underclass' and so on.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View HKOwen's Profile HKOwen Flag Hong Kong 31 May 21 11.15pm Send a Private Message to HKOwen Add HKOwen as a friend

Cleese, Barker, Corbett

 


Let's see SP and the board trying to line up for a piss in the AW toilets at half time before peddling the new stand. We're the Arthur over here and the facilities are a disgrace

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 31 May 21 11.47pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by HKOwen

Cleese, Barker, Corbett

So you know your place.

 

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View HKOwen's Profile HKOwen Flag Hong Kong 01 Jun 21 7.46am Send a Private Message to HKOwen Add HKOwen as a friend

One of the finest comedy sketches


Originally posted by Mapletree

So you know your place.

 


Let's see SP and the board trying to line up for a piss in the AW toilets at half time before peddling the new stand. We're the Arthur over here and the facilities are a disgrace

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View Eaglecoops's Profile Eaglecoops Flag CR3 01 Jun 21 9.45am Send a Private Message to Eaglecoops Add Eaglecoops as a friend

For me the monetary distinction in classes is simple.

Working class equals, working to survive, living day to day with little opportunity to progress as you get by, hand to mouth.

Middle class are independently self sufficient with the ability to save and purchase everything they need or fund debt to provide it.

Upper class generally have more wealth than they know how to spend and provided they don’t have a member of the family that just blows it all then they will continue to become more wealthy.

There will be some who fall above, below and between those classes. I’ve got absolutely no idea how this compares to an official description of class distinction, however at one time it was easy to know where your vote was going to be placed based on which class you generally fell under.

As most have already said, this is no longer the case. The left have lost a lot of support amongst the working class but possibly gained small numbers amongst the middle classes. If they are to ever achieve anything in politics again they need to address their core supporters concerns.

 

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