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Rafiq

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View chris123's Profile chris123 Flag hove actually 17 Nov 21 10.13am Send a Private Message to chris123 Add chris123 as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

From what I have seen, it seems like he is simply playing the race card.
He got called a few names during banter sessions with his team mates and then tried to link that to treatment by management that he considered unfair.

How many employees think they get unfair treatment from management and colleagues? Millions I should think. Maybe he did get unfair treatment, but that is a million miles away from proving actual racism.

He is getting this hearing so that politicians and the media can appear woke. Simple as that. Most people get an employment tribunal or are paid off at best.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (17 Nov 2021 9.21am)

You'd get fired at my place if you used the p word.

 

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View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 17 Nov 21 10.57am Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by chris123

You'd get fired at my place if you used the p word.

Palace? Where do you work?

 


COYP

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View dreamwaverider's Profile dreamwaverider Flag London 17 Nov 21 11.05am Send a Private Message to dreamwaverider Add dreamwaverider as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

What a surprise. Now it's all about Asian representation in English cricket. So the result will be that lots of the English players will be replaced with Asians and the board will have Asians on it.

When will those of pakistani descent be satisfied, I wonder?

We all know the answer. Britanistan has got a little bit closer.

Positive discrimination.

 

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View chris123's Profile chris123 Flag hove actually 17 Nov 21 11.10am Send a Private Message to chris123 Add chris123 as a friend

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

Palace? Where do you work?

Can't say, red and blue well hidden though I'm hoping.

 

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View Spiderman's Profile Spiderman Flag Horsham 17 Nov 21 11.29am Send a Private Message to Spiderman Add Spiderman as a friend

Originally posted by DanH

Those trying to cite the ‘Ballance went to his wedding’ point to try and dismiss his claims obviously don’t know very much about south Asian wedding traditions. It’s not uncommon for 400 odd people to be invited. It’s likely the entire playing squad and coaching staff were invited - it’s unlikely he only cherry picked out those he got on with:

I have attended several of these weddings, you are correct 400 is not uncommon ( in fact one I attended 400 would have been a gross underestimate). However, whilst there is no doubt family members could not be cherry picked ( this would be a complete no-no), it would not be uncommon for friends/colleagues to be cherry picked. Not an opinion on this case just my observation of Asian wedding ceremonies

 

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View dreamwaverider's Profile dreamwaverider Flag London 17 Nov 21 11.35am Send a Private Message to dreamwaverider Add dreamwaverider as a friend

The hard facts are that this world has moved heavily in favour of Equality Diversity and Inclusiveness. It is now considered unacceptable to challenge any of this or anyone affected by it. In some cases companies are creating target environments that clearly favour the above beliefs. That is acceptable.
To constantly challenge this is passe and fast becoming dangerously incorrect. Excuses such as humour, leg pulling, affection are over. Humorous activity gone.
In sport soccer. has become a leader on this following the leads of Baseball and American football.
Like it or not EDI is gathering pace fast and is here to stay.
People now frown on examples of how different the world was twenty years ago. It is now considered offensive to even mention old BBC TV shows etc.
The changes which are significant are clearly the present and the future which we are all expected to adhere to regardless of generation.
A bit like technology the younger generations take this in their stride while the older find it harder to come to terms with.
Good luck to you all adapting. My opinion rather like technology is that like it or not it is here to stay. The faster we all adapt to it and accept it the better.
.

 

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View SW19 CPFC's Profile SW19 CPFC Flag Addiscombe West 17 Nov 21 11.43am Send a Private Message to SW19 CPFC Add SW19 CPFC as a friend

Originally posted by dreamwaverider

Positive discrimination.

Not a fan of positive discrimination for multiple reasons. The main one being it breeds contempt and creates a competitive and often, competency imbalance that is not good for any organisation. I am however a fan of education leading to real change though. And that's not just relevant to race, it's also relevant to class and all sorts of other prejudices that limit opportunities for perfectly capable, or talented people.

 


Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

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View SW19 CPFC's Profile SW19 CPFC Flag Addiscombe West 17 Nov 21 11.57am Send a Private Message to SW19 CPFC Add SW19 CPFC as a friend

Originally posted by dreamwaverider

The hard facts are that this world has moved heavily in favour of Equality Diversity and Inclusiveness. It is now considered unacceptable to challenge any of this or anyone affected by it. In some cases companies are creating target environments that clearly favour the above beliefs. That is acceptable.
To constantly challenge this is passe and fast becoming dangerously incorrect. Excuses such as humour, leg pulling, affection are over. Humorous activity gone.
In sport soccer. has become a leader on this following the leads of Baseball and American football.
Like it or not EDI is gathering pace fast and is here to stay.
People now frown on examples of how different the world was twenty years ago. It is now considered offensive to even mention old BBC TV shows etc.
The changes which are significant are clearly the present and the future which we are all expected to adhere to regardless of generation.
A bit like technology the younger generations take this in their stride while the older find it harder to come to terms with.
Good luck to you all adapting. My opinion rather like technology is that like it or not it is here to stay. The faster we all adapt to it and accept it the better.
.

A lot of sense in this, although I'd argue some of it is hyperbolic with regards to humour etc. (acerbic comedy is alive and well). Certainly the point around younger generations and adapting to it is wise but there are plenty of things that are imbalanced within the offense/woke approach that do need to continue to be countered and challenged. Essentially not everything needs to change, but equally not everything should stay the same. It's all about balance – and the current trend is for a lot of the progressive side of the debate to increasingly go unchallenged, or worse, reasoned, constructive debate against it gets shouted down.

This creates power imbalance and badly implemented laws/rules etc. which lead to further animosity and division. There's a distinct lack of objectivity and mediation on both sides of not just this debate but politics and society as a whole these days and it's a crying shame as it only leads to problems. Won't change anytime soon while technology continues to shrink debates into 140 character soundbites and continues to erode attention spans.

There's actually quite a good analogy to be made with the world of football commentary and punditry these days. Plays out in exactly the same way – no real thought or objective analysis in most cases, just platitudes and soundbites that generate views and emotional responses rather than useful constructive thinking.

Personally I'm agreeing with Bezos, Zuckerberg, Gates et al and keeping my kids off social for as long as is humanly possible.

 


Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

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BlueJay Flag UK 17 Nov 21 12.05pm

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

I think he’s entitled to ‘play the race card’ if ‘a few names’ are actually racist slurs or insults. Stop downplaying it to fit your agenda. Loads of employees get unfair treatment. Racism is, rather obviously, beyond ‘unfair treatment’. Do you have a threshold for when racism is racist enough to be a problem? I suppose casual continual racist banter doesn’t quite make it for you. A psychologist would have a field day working out why your harbour such continual resentment to anyone you view as ‘better off’ or apparently getting special treatment.

Also I do find it ironic that you’re forever complaining about identity politics when you are in fact guilty of it every time you generalise about other races, in this case motivation for ‘playing the race card’.

Now whether this had to be trotted out to the public in the fashion that is unfolding now is another question, and I do agree the current penchant for these sort of instances becoming unbalanced and unobjective is a concern, as is the moral character of Rafiq himself based on other chatter around this subject (which is not necessarily being reported in a balanced way). However once racism enters the fray you’re leaving yourself at the mercy of the storm. Also just because his character is not squeaky clean does not mean that his allegations should not be taken seriously, trivialised or somehow dismissed. Objectivity in action, right there.

Ultimately if the seniority at Yorkshire, including senior players, had an ounce of awareness and understanding about what is racist and what isn’t, with sincerity or not, this would never have escalated. And it’s not a single or rare instance - it was continuous and culturally entrenched in the club by the captain and dismissed by his seniors to try and hush it up and prevent escalation. Which ironically is now happening. So it’s all on them, frankly.

To add - I’ve been privy to several club threads where openly racist content is shared. Sometimes is shut down, rightly, other times it’s simply allowed to continue or even celebrated. Needless to say from what I’ve seen
this rather expectedly happens in some of the backwater areas outside of London but it simply shows it’s not a problem from 10 years ago.

Hrolf's attitude to every instance of racist abuse: Who cares, life isn't perfect, get on with it and don't complain about racial slurs and abuse - else it might be deserved!

His attitude to every non white person responding to racist abuse: You are a product of mass immigration and paying mind to your experience of racist abuse (whether you were born here or not) is proof that you have an agenda and that we are being 'held to ransom by immigrants'. We were previously 'happily white'. Excuse me while I tally up every non white face on TV though as 'my concerns' matter and your mistreatment is irrelevant. Did you know that I'm enraged by race stories on Sky Sports News too, but don't ever change the channel because it's important for me to stew about race 24/7, whereas as an individual you should move on from racist abuse in every instance else I might struggle to 'respect you regardless to your colour'.


It's no wonder such clown attitudes eventually results in unhelpful identity lurches in the opposite direction too. A bit of common sense and decency goes a long way in life, but unfortunately you don't present with views like the above if you have ever had any time for people of other races to begin with.

Edited by BlueJay (17 Nov 2021 12.10pm)

 

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BlueJay Flag UK 17 Nov 21 12.18pm

Originally posted by dreamwaverider

The hard facts are that this world has moved heavily in favour of Equality Diversity and Inclusiveness. It is now considered unacceptable to challenge any of this or anyone affected by it. In some cases companies are creating target environments that clearly favour the above beliefs. That is acceptable.
To constantly challenge this is passe and fast becoming dangerously incorrect. Excuses such as humour, leg pulling, affection are over. Humorous activity gone.
In sport soccer. has become a leader on this following the leads of Baseball and American football.
Like it or not EDI is gathering pace fast and is here to stay.
People now frown on examples of how different the world was twenty years ago. It is now considered offensive to even mention old BBC TV shows etc.
The changes which are significant are clearly the present and the future which we are all expected to adhere to regardless of generation.
A bit like technology the younger generations take this in their stride while the older find it harder to come to terms with.
Good luck to you all adapting. My opinion rather like technology is that like it or not it is here to stay. The faster we all adapt to it and accept it the better.
.

A fair appraisal of the many pros and cons or where we're at. Certainly true with regardless to the different generations perception of it too. Adaptation is a vital component of life, and we proceed through the actual terrain in front of us, rather than rose tinted pasts or imagined dystopian futures. Neither are really what we ever imagine them to be anyway. 99% of us make the best of things, regardless of colour or creed. There's something to be said for tuning out the presented external noise and just living life. The two experiences are very different.

One aspects that we should keep on eye on though is technology and social networks. People fail to see how ludicrously one faceted they become when they opt into comforting echo chambers that are wish list realities that have little in common with every day life once you've logged off. People become enamored by what might as well be an imaginary friend who holds exaggerated versions of their most comforting views and shortcomings. Anyone spewing out buzzwords or the known online nomenclature of the fringes or left and right, essentially handed in their identity at some stage and are unlikely to ask for it back. They became the bots.

Government pushed mass immigration is certainly a factor in life that brings with it various challenges that people were not given a say in. For the psyche though, I would wager that the nuance and emotional intelligence dissolving online landscape screws people over just as much if not more.


Edited by BlueJay (17 Nov 2021 12.46pm)

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 17 Nov 21 1.09pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

I think he’s entitled to ‘play the race card’ if ‘a few names’ are actually racist slurs or insults. Stop downplaying it to fit your agenda. Loads of employees get unfair treatment. Racism is, rather obviously, beyond ‘unfair treatment’. Do you have a threshold for when racism is racist enough to be a problem? I suppose casual continual racist banter doesn’t quite make it for you. A psychologist would have a field day working out why your harbour such continual resentment to anyone you view as ‘better off’ or apparently getting special treatment.

Also I do find it ironic that you’re forever complaining about identity politics when you are in fact guilty of it every time you generalise about other races, in this case motivation for ‘playing the race card’.

Now whether this had to be trotted out to the public in the fashion that is unfolding now is another question, and I do agree the current penchant for these sort of instances becoming unbalanced and unobjective is a concern, as is the moral character of Rafiq himself based on other chatter around this subject (which is not necessarily being reported in a balanced way). However once racism enters the fray you’re leaving yourself at the mercy of the storm. Also just because his character is not squeaky clean does not mean that his allegations should not be taken seriously, trivialised or somehow dismissed. Objectivity in action, right there.

Ultimately if the seniority at Yorkshire, including senior players, had an ounce of awareness and understanding about what is racist and what isn’t, with sincerity or not, this would never have escalated. And it’s not a single or rare instance - it was continuous and culturally entrenched in the club by the captain and dismissed by his seniors to try and hush it up and prevent escalation. Which ironically is now happening. So it’s all on them, frankly.

To add - I’ve been privy to several club threads where openly racist content is shared. Sometimes is shut down, rightly, other times it’s simply allowed to continue or even celebrated. Needless to say from what I’ve seen
this rather expectedly happens in some of the backwater areas outside of London but it simply shows it’s not a problem from 10 years ago.

As I have said several times already. The context is everything.
When the 'abuse' is accepted as friendly banter by all parties, then it is not reasonable to complain about it years later.
I am very suspicious that he is using this to add a race element to treatment that he has received that he considered to be unfair.
Frankly, it amazes me that people who appear intelligent take this stuff on face value.

No one should get bullied at work or anywhere else, but it happens regularly and nothing is done. People who make a fuss are usually considered troublemakers and pushed out because it is easier to get rid of an individual than a larger group. This could well be what happened in this case, but I don't know.

One thing I am quite confident about is that this guy decided to become offended by banter when it suited his agenda.
I would be reluctant to employ or work with a pakistani in the light of this. Why take the risk of being accused of something with plenty gullible enough to believe anything they say?

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Online Flag 17 Nov 21 1.30pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

Not a fan of positive discrimination for multiple reasons. The main one being it breeds contempt and creates a competitive and often, competency imbalance that is not good for any organisation. I am however a fan of education leading to real change though. And that's not just relevant to race, it's also relevant to class and all sorts of other prejudices that limit opportunities for perfectly capable, or talented people.

I regard this as utopian and misguided and incredibly dangerous as it's a misjudgment repeated throughout history.

It reminds me of the how the socialists regarded the Soviets before the full knowledge of communism in Russia became undeniable. The described a system....which essentially was what they wanted....rather than what the reality was.

Thank god the western system was socially conservative at the time, as it saved us from the idealists. The scary thing about the future is that all those people are now dead.

Edited by Stirlingsays (17 Nov 2021 1.31pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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