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January 29 2022 2.06pm

Boris is toast.

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View silvertop's Profile silvertop Flag bristol 12 Jan 22 10.44am Send a Private Message to silvertop Add silvertop as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Not at all. You ignore the important phrase "that strives to appeal to ordinary people". Populism tries to make the politicians who adopt it popular by giving the people what they want, and not delivering what they need. When we choose representatives we expect them to take decisions on our behalf that are in our best interests. We don't elect them to be delegates who simply do what we want.

Populism is a landscape of false dawns, populated by fake politicians interested in their own survival and not that of the people they serve.

That the opposition remains weak and quite possibly in its death throes is undeniable. I sincerely hope new parties emerge, including one on the right. The sooner the current Tories realise they can be split down the middle the better. I want to see smaller parties, some regionally based, and a series of coalitions, so we avoid any wild swings from left to right but establish a generally accepted consensus, with only minor deviations.

A nice definition. Another is a political system that seeks to attribute simple causes to complex issues. Generally, they are on the nasty side. "Inflation is Jewish". "Immigrants cause crime". Policies are adapted accordingly.

"Levelling-up" is a worthy populist policy where it can be seen as a rallying cry with a lot of difficult, expensive work being done behind it. "Get Brexit done" tapped into the more traditional populist model seeking to arouse the deep xenophobia that underpinned it.

The reason for its success is that the majority of people are too dumb, or too lazy to consider the options. Give them a measured argument and they will zone out after the first 3 words. Give them just 3 words, especially ones that engage the standard populist tropes of jingoism and xenophobia, and you will get them on side.

"Take back control" is classic populism. Why say any more? The proles wont understand you anyway.

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 12 Jan 22 11.21am Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Not at all. You ignore the important phrase "that strives to appeal to ordinary people". Populism tries to make the politicians who adopt it popular by giving the people what they want, and not delivering what they need. When we choose representatives we expect them to take decisions on our behalf that are in our best interests. We don't elect them to be delegates who simply do what we want.

Populism is a landscape of false dawns, populated by fake politicians interested in their own survival and not that of the people they serve.

That the opposition remains weak and quite possibly in its death throes is undeniable. I sincerely hope new parties emerge, including one on the right. The sooner the current Tories realise they can be split down the middle the better. I want to see smaller parties, some regionally based, and a series of coalitions, so we avoid any wild swings from left to right but establish a generally accepted consensus, with only minor deviations.

Politicians always strive to give the appearance of giving the people what they want. That is just politics.
Populism is a ridiculous phrase adopted mainly by the left to deny what the majority know to be true because it doesn't suit their agenda.

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 12 Jan 22 11.24am Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by silvertop

A nice definition. Another is a political system that seeks to attribute simple causes to complex issues. Generally, they are on the nasty side. "Inflation is Jewish". "Immigrants cause crime". Policies are adapted accordingly.

"Levelling-up" is a worthy populist policy where it can be seen as a rallying cry with a lot of difficult, expensive work being done behind it. "Get Brexit done" tapped into the more traditional populist model seeking to arouse the deep xenophobia that underpinned it.

The reason for its success is that the majority of people are too dumb, or too lazy to consider the options. Give them a measured argument and they will zone out after the first 3 words. Give them just 3 words, especially ones that engage the standard populist tropes of jingoism and xenophobia, and you will get them on side.

"Take back control" is classic populism. Why say any more? The proles wont understand you anyway.

You are a Leftist and your prejudice pervades everything. I have no problem with political prejudice as long as it retains the capacity to accept the factual. I'm not sure if that can be said of you or some of your like minds on here.

 

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View becky's Profile becky Flag over the moon 12 Jan 22 11.28am Send a Private Message to becky Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add becky as a friend

Originally posted by YT

Whereas at least Tony Blair had some charisma.

Really? He was the only person who ever made me wonder if there really was some credence to the 'world taken over by lizard people' theory......

 


A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 12 Jan 22 11.36am Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

You are a Leftist and your prejudice pervades everything. I have no problem with political prejudice as long as it retains the capacity to accept the factual. I'm not sure if that can be said of you or some of your like minds on here.

The factual is that Boris is in trouble and that any leaking of prodding is coming from those much closer to home than any 'leftist' or news items you're in a tizzy about. The drip, drip, drip will continue.

 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 12 Jan 22 11.43am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Politicians always strive to give the appearance of giving the people what they want. That is just politics.
Populism is a ridiculous phrase adopted mainly by the left to deny what the majority know to be true because it doesn't suit their agenda.

Exactly populism is used as a dirty word to justify why a minority e.g. activists or protestors are entitled to ignore the will of the majority., 52 beats 48.

 


One more point

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View eaglesdare's Profile eaglesdare Flag 12 Jan 22 11.46am Send a Private Message to eaglesdare Add eaglesdare as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

Your "I'm a responsible anti-vaxer" mask is slipping a bit

I dont even wear a mask! and havnt done in over year! i just do my tests and get on with life!

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 12 Jan 22 12.18pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by BlueJay

The factual is that Boris is in trouble and that any leaking of prodding is coming from those much closer to home than any 'leftist' or news items you're in a tizzy about. The drip, drip, drip will continue.

I don't doubt that forces within the party want to oust Boris for their own ends. Leftists don't have any answers for anything of consequence, so they only have attacks on the PM to rally behind.

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 12 Jan 22 2.57pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Politicians always strive to give the appearance of giving the people what they want. That is just politics.
Populism is a ridiculous phrase adopted mainly by the left to deny what the majority know to be true because it doesn't suit their agenda.

This spectacularly misses the point. Whilst every politician needs to be aware of public reaction and put a positive spin on things that doesn't mean all policies are populist.

Populism is far from a "ridiculous phrase". That's just an excuse. Populism is a political reality. We have seen it in both the USA and in the UK. Whilst responsible, moral, politicians lead, populists follow. They adopt policies that win them elections and keep them in power, even when they know they harm the people they serve. It is not necessarily a right wing phenomenon, although in recent experience it has come from the right. Leftish populism is perfectly possible.

A populist government would restore the death penalty just because they knew it would be popular, whilst in their hearts knowing it was morally indefensible.

Populism is morally bankrupt and a very dangerous road for any democratic country to take. The sooner it is abandoned the better. Maybe Johnson's removal will pave a new road ahead.

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 12 Jan 22 3.02pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

I don't doubt that forces within the party want to oust Boris for their own ends. Leftists don't have any answers for anything of consequence, so they only have attacks on the PM to rally behind.

That will always be true. The hole that Johnson is now in though has been dug by his own hand, assisted by stupid, thoughtless statements. It has nothing to do with any "leftists". It only has to do with truth and acceptable behaviour. He fails on both, so he will go. It's beginning to look as though that will be quite soon.

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 12 Jan 22 3.17pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

Exactly populism is used as a dirty word to justify why a minority e.g. activists or protestors are entitled to ignore the will of the majority., 52 beats 48.

Not at all.

The majority always wins. Referendums are not though part of our democracy. Parliament is sovereign and only it can act.

There were legitimate reasons to protest the way the Brexit process unfolded, to demand that the revelations of the security forces be taken seriously. Election laws were broken.

No referendum on such a crucial issue is binding on a UK Parliament. Parliament had the power to act, but failed to do so, even though their collective judgement was in favour of staying in,

So the 52:48 majority is not the issue. It's a red herring. It's the use of a referendum by a populist government and the failure of Parliament, especially by the opposition leader Corbyn, to stand up and be counted which is.

Brexit was a failure of British democracy. Not a triumph.

 

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View silvertop's Profile silvertop Flag bristol 12 Jan 22 4.05pm Send a Private Message to silvertop Add silvertop as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

You are a Leftist and your prejudice pervades everything. I have no problem with political prejudice as long as it retains the capacity to accept the factual. I'm not sure if that can be said of you or some of your like minds on here.

What did I say that was wrong? Identify and we can discuss.

Also, I am centrist / pragmatic and not of the left (albeit obviously left of you).

On which, the actual left are as fond of simple, patronising populism as the right. They just use different words.

 

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