Ukraine Situation - Should We Be Worried? - Crystal Palace FC Supporters' Website

Ukraine Situation - Should We Be Worried?

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Matov 27 Jul 22 1.30pm
Originally posted by Vincehair Germany seem to be finally getting on board which could be significant. They are not happy about rationed gas and guess they probably now see Ukr victory as favourable outcome Edited by Vincehair (27 Jul 2022 9.20am) Ukraine cannot win. That is the point. They are not going to be able to drive the Russians out. At best, you have a permanent conflict going on. Was talking to somebody I know who is involved in helping Ukrainian refugees and spends almost all his time on the ground either in or close to the actual war zones. He is as pro-Ukrainian as can be but says that we are literally not being told even a small % of what the reality is. In the parts of Ukraine where the fighting is, the vast majority of the population are on almost every level conceivable closer to the Russians in terms of language and culture than the West. Or more specifically Poland which is the role model almost all those opposed to the Russians are looking to emulate. He reckons the only long-term solution is potentially a Ukraine divided along the Dnieper. With the majority on the eastern side of that divide not only better off but preferring rule from Moscow as opposed to Kiev. The Ukrainian government are effectively imposing new language norms on people which make no sense, such as directly translating English words into Cyrillic. I appreciate you won't but if you want to understand why Crimea is now part of Russia once again, then language, and the requirements around that, is key and it plays a huge part in what is playing our now. Also how many UKR army units, despite all the billions of dollars/pounds/euro's being poured in, are lacking even the basics such as socks and pants. Let's be honest, most of us have already made up our minds about what side we are on and very little is going to change that but I would urge everybody to take a step back and wonder just a little bit more about how are ALL being conned over what is actually happening. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

27 Jul 22 1.30pm

Originally posted by Vincehair

Germany seem to be finally getting on board which could be significant. They are not happy about rationed gas and guess they probably now see Ukr victory as favourable outcome

Edited by Vincehair (27 Jul 2022 9.20am)

Ukraine cannot win. That is the point. They are not going to be able to drive the Russians out. At best, you have a permanent conflict going on.

Was talking to somebody I know who is involved in helping Ukrainian refugees and spends almost all his time on the ground either in or close to the actual war zones. He is as pro-Ukrainian as can be but says that we are literally not being told even a small % of what the reality is. In the parts of Ukraine where the fighting is, the vast majority of the population are on almost every level conceivable closer to the Russians in terms of language and culture than the West. Or more specifically Poland which is the role model almost all those opposed to the Russians are looking to emulate. He reckons the only long-term solution is potentially a Ukraine divided along the Dnieper. With the majority on the eastern side of that divide not only better off but preferring rule from Moscow as opposed to Kiev.

The Ukrainian government are effectively imposing new language norms on people which make no sense, such as directly translating English words into Cyrillic. I appreciate you won't but if you want to understand why Crimea is now part of Russia once again, then language, and the requirements around that, is key and it plays a huge part in what is playing our now.

Also how many UKR army units, despite all the billions of dollars/pounds/euro's being poured in, are lacking even the basics such as socks and pants.

Let's be honest, most of us have already made up our minds about what side we are on and very little is going to change that but I would urge everybody to take a step back and wonder just a little bit more about how are ALL being conned over what is actually happening.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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Stirlingsays 27 Jul 22 1.48pm
Originally posted by Matov Ukraine cannot win. That is the point. They are not going to be able to drive the Russians out. At best, you have a permanent conflict going on. Was talking to somebody I know who is involved in helping Ukrainian refugees and spends almost all his time on the ground either in or close to the actual war zones. He is as pro-Ukrainian as can be but says that we are literally not being told even a small % of what the reality is. In the parts of Ukraine where the fighting is, the vast majority of the population are on almost every level conceivable closer to the Russians in terms of language and culture than the West. Or more specifically Poland which is the role model almost all those opposed to the Russians are looking to emulate. He reckons the only long-term solution is potentially a Ukraine divided along the Dnieper. With the majority on the eastern side of that divide not only better off but preferring rule from Moscow as opposed to Kiev. The Ukrainian government are effectively imposing new language norms on people which make no sense, such as directly translating English words into Cyrillic. I appreciate you won't but if you want to understand why Crimea is now part of Russia once again, then language, and the requirements around that, is key and it plays a huge part in what is playing our now. Also how many UKR army units, despite all the billions of dollars/pounds/euro's being poured in, are lacking even the basics such as socks and pants. Let's be honest, most of us have already made up our minds about what side we are on and very little is going to change that but I would urge everybody to take a step back and wonder just a little bit more about how are ALL being conned over what is actually happening. It's goes against the mainstream narrative that normies are being fed, but you are of course talking sense. It's going to be fascinating how the media handle comparing the realities of what they were told with what the outcome is.....then again we went through that same unreality with Syria. The MSM were all over it like catnip and then went colder than a corpse once the reality unfolded. But the public are fascinating, it's like they are zombies....you could literally print or broadcast anything to most of them and if the eventual outcome is different....as long as a little time passed they just forget whatever is inconvenient to them......it's probably true for most people in any society....most people don't like to think for themselves. What's the expression, it's easier to fool someone than convince them that they were fooled. The old adage of using yesterday's paper for your chips still holds true.....Most of what the mainstream media says is nonsense. You instantly realise that once the media comments upon your own profession....you realise that most of them are talking out of their backsides. Edited by Stirlingsays (27 Jul 2022 1.52pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

27 Jul 22 1.48pm

Originally posted by Matov

Ukraine cannot win. That is the point. They are not going to be able to drive the Russians out. At best, you have a permanent conflict going on.

Also how many UKR army units, despite all the billions of dollars/pounds/euro's being poured in, are lacking even the basics such as socks and pants.

It's goes against the mainstream narrative that normies are being fed, but you are of course talking sense.

It's going to be fascinating how the media handle comparing the realities of what they were told with what the outcome is.....then again we went through that same unreality with Syria. The MSM were all over it like catnip and then went colder than a corpse once the reality unfolded. But the public are fascinating, it's like they are zombies....you could literally print or broadcast anything to most of them and if the eventual outcome is different....as long as a little time passed they just forget whatever is inconvenient to them......it's probably true for most people in any society....most people don't like to think for themselves. What's the expression, it's easier to fool someone than convince them that they were fooled.

The old adage of using yesterday's paper for your chips still holds true.....Most of what the mainstream media says is nonsense.

You instantly realise that once the media comments upon your own profession....you realise that most of them are talking out of their backsides.

Edited by Stirlingsays (27 Jul 2022 1.52pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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W12 27 Jul 22 2.26pm
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Most people are like fish that cannot see the water they are swimming in.
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W12 27 Jul 22 2.26pm

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Most people are like fish that cannot see the water they are swimming in.

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Stirlingsays 27 Jul 22 2.48pm
Originally posted by W12 I've said it before and I'll say it again. Most people are like fish that cannot see the water they are swimming in. Indeed. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

27 Jul 22 2.48pm

Originally posted by W12

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Most people are like fish that cannot see the water they are swimming in.

Indeed.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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deleted 25 27 Jul 22 3.51pm
[Tweet Link]
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deleted 25

27 Jul 22 3.51pm

[Tweet Link]

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Stirlingsays 27 Jul 22 4.25pm
Russia continue to take territory in the Donbas while the Ukrainians have some sort of offensive operating in the south. That encirclement claim was just disinformation just like the million man army in the news recently. In my view the Ukrainians are desperate to convince their western backers that they can make major inroads against the Russians before the Winter. A lot of people are going to die but I've long since resigned to the inevitability of it. I'm hearing that August/September is going to be very active. The Ukrainians have their southern offensive while the Russians grapevine says they have 16 new battalions preparing for their own offensive. We will all see what was more accurate in these next two months. Edited by Stirlingsays (27 Jul 2022 4.27pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

27 Jul 22 4.25pm

Russia continue to take territory in the Donbas while the Ukrainians have some sort of offensive operating in the south.

That encirclement claim was just disinformation just like the million man army in the news recently.

In my view the Ukrainians are desperate to convince their western backers that they can make major inroads against the Russians before the Winter.

A lot of people are going to die but I've long since resigned to the inevitability of it.

I'm hearing that August/September is going to be very active.

The Ukrainians have their southern offensive while the Russians grapevine says they have 16 new battalions preparing for their own offensive.

We will all see what was more accurate in these next two months.

Edited by Stirlingsays (27 Jul 2022 4.27pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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W12 27 Jul 22 4.59pm
Originally posted by Vincehair [Tweet Link] That is literally a drop in the ocean. Also not that Russian MLRS (Tornado) are superior to what been supplied to Ukraine both in terms of 50% more range and double the number of missiles per launcher (compared to HIMARS) and with air superiority the Russians are not losing theirs in any significant number like the Ukrainians. They also have huge numbers of these to call upon. I think people are still thinking of the Russian military in Soviet terms and it's just not the case. They are a modern integrated fighting force and have huge numbers especially in artillery.
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W12 27 Jul 22 4.59pm

Originally posted by Vincehair

[Tweet Link]

That is literally a drop in the ocean.

Also not that Russian MLRS (Tornado) are superior to what been supplied to Ukraine both in terms of 50% more range and double the number of missiles per launcher (compared to HIMARS) and with air superiority the Russians are not losing theirs in any significant number like the Ukrainians. They also have huge numbers of these to call upon.

I think people are still thinking of the Russian military in Soviet terms and it's just not the case. They are a modern integrated fighting force and have huge numbers especially in artillery.

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W12 27 Jul 22 5.08pm
Get real Attachment: Screenshot 2022-07-27 at 17.07.50.png (122.14Kb)
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W12 27 Jul 22 5.08pm

Get real

Attachment: Screenshot 2022-07-27 at 17.07.50.png (122.14Kb)

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Stirlingsays 27 Jul 22 5.10pm
Originally posted by W12 That is literally a drop in the ocean. Also not that Russian MLRS (Tornado) are superior to what been supplied to Ukraine both in terms of 50% more range and double the number of missiles per launcher (compared to HIMARS) and with air superiority the Russians are not losing theirs in any significant number like the Ukrainians. They also have huge numbers of these to call upon. I think people are still thinking of the Russian military in Soviet terms and it's just not the case. They are a modern integrated fighting force and have huge numbers especially in artillery. The Russians claim to have knocked out four Himars already, though there is no way of verifying that. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

27 Jul 22 5.10pm

Originally posted by W12

That is literally a drop in the ocean.

I think people are still thinking of the Russian military in Soviet terms and it's just not the case. They are a modern integrated fighting force and have huge numbers especially in artillery.

The Russians claim to have knocked out four Himars already, though there is no way of verifying that.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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W12 27 Jul 22 5.33pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays The Russians claim to have knocked out four Himars already, though there is no way of verifying that. You just have to understand what happens when you fire a ground based missile system whilst conceding complete air superiority.
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W12 27 Jul 22 5.33pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

The Russians claim to have knocked out four Himars already, though there is no way of verifying that.

You just have to understand what happens when you fire a ground based missile system whilst conceding complete air superiority.

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deleted 25 27 Jul 22 6.15pm
Originally posted by W12 You just have to understand what happens when you fire a ground based missile system whilst conceding complete air superiority. That sentence makes no sense!
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deleted 25

27 Jul 22 6.15pm

Originally posted by W12

You just have to understand what happens when you fire a ground based missile system whilst conceding complete air superiority.

That sentence makes no sense!

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