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September 25 2023 8.29am

Ukraine Situation - Should We Be Worried?

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 22 May 23 1.11pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays


Personally I doubt that any major action by Ukrainian forces doesn't have the supervision of Nato. Our secret and security services are up to the eyeballs in Ukraine. At some point we will learn who has died over there.

No one in the west, other than Orban, is calling for peace and we are essentially puppets of the US state department. I genuinely fear the escalation.

Only a DeSantis or Trump win ends the madness.

I think you will find that Putin could end it tomorrow if he wanted to.

The West wants to make ensure that Russia get a bloody nose and think very carefully about military action in the future.

Proxy war is nothing new but certainly, on mainland Europe we are playing with fire all the time this madness continues.
I just don't think the West has any intention of backing down.

It might go badly if we do or if we don't. That is the problem. The chances are that they will eventually find a way for both to save face, but Ukraine is not playing a game here. It has been devastated and many citizens killed.

There has to be a reckoning and consequences for that in some way or other.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 22 May 23 1.11pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by palace_in_frogland

I recently watched an interesting video showing how Crimea could possibly be taken more easily than one might imagine.

Basically, there are only 4 ways to supply Crimea; by air, by sea, through the landbridge Russia established to the east or via the Kerch bridge.

If Ukraine pushes south from Kherson and can take back Melitopol, that severs the landbridge. A couple of strikes with the Storm Shadow missiles we just gave them will take out the Kerch Bridge.

With Patriot systems in Melitopol Russia will not be able to fly safely in and out of Crimean airports; and that leaves the sea, which will become increasingly hazardous from seaborne drone attacks.

At that point, it wouldnít matter if Russia had 5 million troops based there: if you canít supply them with food and ammunition they are neutralised.

Interesting theory?

It all comes down to how committed both sides are to dying for this stuff. If Ukraine actually got to the position to fight for Melitopol....easier said than done....how hard would Russia fight them there?....would it turn into another ten months job like Bakhmut? Or do they pack up and go home. Russia haven't actually fought a defending action in a city yet.

Anyway, Russia have had a long time to establish defences against this very thing. It's probably true that the best chance that Ukraine had of achieving this was in the winter before the mass construction of defences.

Indeed, some say that the focus on Bakhmut took the focus and opportunity away. But that would be to ignore how important that city is as well.

I know the Russians are expecting the counter offensive imminently. They think it's been delayed several times already and we might now be seeing the start of diversionary attacks.

Personally I think actual attempts at taking Crimea are suicide pretty much for everyone. Russia won't accept losing access to the black sea. I think even the State department know that.

Edited by Stirlingsays (22 May 2023 1.12pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 22 May 23 1.23pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

I think you will find that Putin could end it tomorrow if he wanted to.

The West wants to make ensure that Russia get a bloody nose and think very carefully about military action in the future.

I doubt it would end there. But I accept that this is essentially the message the mainstream push.

Both me and Wisbech went over the reasons for this bloody awful war and honestly I've no desire to rehash all that but it's all there.

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Proxy war is nothing new but certainly, on mainland Europe we are playing with fire all the time this madness continues.
I just don't think the West has any intention of backing down.

It might go badly if we do or if we don't. That is the problem. The chances are that they will eventually find a way for both to save face, but Ukraine is not playing a game here. It has been devastated and many citizens killed.

There has to be a reckoning and consequences for that in some way or other.

Yeah, as in we all die.

I will say this, I never agreed with Putin's invasion decision....but like Farage and many others who warned over State department actions in Ukraine I don't accept the lies pushed that this war came out of nowhere and the whole Putin is Hitler nonsense.

It comes down to will...Ukraine isn't and wasn't in Nato....Personally I want peace and I don't care which slav owns what part of Slavic land. When I say that I don't mean there isn't a right or wrong, but that it isn't my fight. What it comes down to is what kind of response someone agrees is the right one.

Plenty of people here though are willing to spends fortunes we don't have....as they did with lockdowns....on this war.

I think....similar to the Syrian war....it's completely nuts and counter productive to our own interests and standard of living.

But hey, it doesn't matter what I think...it's going to happen anyway.

I can say it wasn't the hill I was willing to die on....not that it makes any difference.

Edited by Stirlingsays (22 May 2023 1.31pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Behind Enemy Lines's Profile Behind Enemy Lines Flag Sussex 22 May 23 1.38pm Send a Private Message to Behind Enemy Lines Add Behind Enemy Lines as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Yeah, as in we all die.

I will say this, I never agreed with Putin's invasion decision....but like Farage and many others who warned over State department actions in Ukraine I don't accept the lies pushed that this war came out of nowhere and the whole Putin is Hitler nonsense.

It comes down to will...Ukraine isn't and wasn't in Nato....Personally I want peace and I don't care which slav owns what part of Slavic land. When I say that I don't mean there isn't a right or wrong, but that it isn't my fight. What it comes down to is what kind of response someone agrees is the right one.

Plenty of people here though are willing to spends fortunes we don't have....as they did with lockdowns....on this war.

I think....similar to the Syrian war....it's completely nuts and counter productive to our own interests and standard of living.

But hey, it doesn't matter what I think...it's going to happen anyway.

I can say it wasn't the hill I was willing to die on....not that it makes any difference.

Edited by Stirlingsays (22 May 2023 1.31pm)

I agree with you, sir.
My only observation would be that it might send a message to China re their desires for Taiwan, and that it is easier to fight an aggressor nearer to home than on the other side of the globe to make that statement.

 


hats off to palace, they were always gonna be louder, and hate to say it but they were impressive ALL bouncing and singing.

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View palace_in_frogland's Profile palace_in_frogland Flag In a broken dream 22 May 23 1.40pm Send a Private Message to palace_in_frogland Add palace_in_frogland as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Yeah, as in we all die.

I will say this, I never agreed with Putin's invasion decision....but like Farage and many others who warned over State department actions in Ukraine I don't accept the lies pushed that this war came out of nowhere and the whole Putin is Hitler nonsense.

It comes down to will...Ukraine isn't and wasn't in Nato....Personally I want peace and I don't care which slav owns what part of of Slavic land.

Plenty of people here though are willing to spends fortunes we don't have....as they did with lockdowns....on this war.

I think....similar to the Syrian war....it's completely nuts and counter productive to our own interests and standard of living.

But hey, it doesn't matter what I think...it's going to happen anyway.

I can say it wasn't the hill I was willing to die on....not that it makes any difference.

I agree that there have been and continue to be lies spread from both sides, but the content of Putinís speeches leave no doubt that the ultimate goal is the restoration of the Russian empire. As long as he remains in power there is an existential threat to all former soviet republics and a wider potential threat to the countries of Western Europe.

That is why he can not be given any territorial concessions to resolve the current conflict, as unpalatable as that may be to some.

 

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View eaglesdare's Profile eaglesdare Flag 22 May 23 1.42pm Send a Private Message to eaglesdare Add eaglesdare as a friend

Still no peace talks or attempts to make peace. Still needless lives are lost. People must be getting rich and richer off the back of the "War"

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 22 May 23 1.43pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by palace_in_frogland

I agree that there have been and continue to be lies spread from both sides, but the content of Putinís speeches leave no doubt that the ultimate goal is the restoration of the Russian empire. As long as he remains in power there is an existential threat to all former soviet republics and a wider potential threat to the countries of Western Europe.

That is why he can not be given any territorial concessions to resolve the current conflict, as unpalatable as that may be to some.

That's just not true.

Again, that's the mainstream messaging coming out from our media, which itself is coming from our state and security services. If you are trying to justify politics that has led to a new cold war it's obviously the line that's going to be taken.

We can cherry pick Biden's speeches and say that the ultimate goal is the break up of Russia.

As if breaking up the second largest nuclear state into different fractions, some of which would have huge anger and resentment, makes any sense at all.

Edited by Stirlingsays (22 May 2023 1.53pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 22 May 23 1.52pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Behind Enemy Lines

I agree with you, sir.
My only observation would be that it might send a message to China re their desires for Taiwan, and that it is easier to fight an aggressor nearer to home than on the other side of the globe to make that statement.

Personally....and I accept that my opinion may put me out of line with some of my fellow conservatives.....is that our policy towards both is counter productive.

The US is itself spending money it doesn't have on foreign wars and placing itself in a weaker position if China do actually choose to invade Taiwan.....which China has been gearing up towards for some time.

Personally I think all of this was diplomatically solvable with the right people in power. However, Neo Cons must have their war machine and budgets.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Forest Hillbilly's Profile Forest Hillbilly Flag in a hidey-hole 22 May 23 1.58pm Send a Private Message to Forest Hillbilly Add Forest Hillbilly as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Personally....and I accept that my opinion may put me out of line with some of my fellow conservatives.....is that our policy towards both is counter productive.

The US is itself spending money it doesn't have on foreign wars and placing itself in a weaker position if China do actually choose to invade Taiwan.....which China has been gearing up towards for some time.

Personally I think all of this was diplomatically solvable with the right people in power. However, Neo Cons must have their war machine and budgets.

and their mates as defence company directors and shareholders.

 


,,

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 22 May 23 2.18pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly

and their mates as defence company directors and shareholders.

Indeed, there's a lot of corruption and greasing of palms....it's within all systems around the world of course. The only difference within the west (which I regard as declining but still the least corrupt) is that our mainstream moralise and pretend that it doesn't.

Edited by Stirlingsays (22 May 2023 2.20pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View steeleye20's Profile steeleye20 Flag Croydon 22 May 23 2.37pm Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

China's peace plan would allow Russia to keep the Sea of Azov and the Russian-speaking territories seized by Russia in the Donbass, so we can understand the hurt to Ukraine.

There it could have ended but for Putin's disastrous invasion.

What peace plan does Washington or Europe, actually have? Pouring in weapons making Zelensky seriously think he can regain the Crimea?

If it's the situation that Russia is going to grind out victory regardless of its losses and as long as it may take, and Ukraine does not have nearly the munitions and men we think it does, this needs consideration.

 

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footythoughts Flag Beckenham 22 May 23 2.45pm

Originally posted by eaglesdare

Still no peace talks or attempts to make peace. Still needless lives are lost. People must be getting rich and richer off the back of the "War"

Peace talks require all sides to engage, rather than no sides. Blame on all sides. A lack of belief that any deal would be stuck to also, understandbaly.

Edited by footythoughts (22 May 2023 2.45pm)

 

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