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March 21 2023 11.28pm

NHS needs a total review

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View HKOwen's Profile HKOwen Flag Hong Kong 12 Dec 22 9.19pm Send a Private Message to HKOwen Add HKOwen as a friend

Per the Nuffield Trust NHS cost as a percentage of GDP has doubled 1950 - 2020, from 3.5% to 7%.

In the same period the population has increased 40% from 50 to 70 million.

With the increasing life expectancy by about ten years in the same period and advances
in treatment and the cost of treatment it is inevitable that the cost as a percentage of tax has/will increase.

Most European countries spend 10% ish of GDP, France and Sweden as examples, it is broadly acknowledged they both have better medical outcomes than the UK.

They also have systems that are not 100% free at point of service.

Somehow the politics has to be removed from the NHS debate but no idea how that would ever happen

Starmer and Streeting are now publicly saying things need to change, just not how.

If people have private medical insurance then going private is their decision, nothing political, frees up an NHS service.

If NHS services reduce because of doctors doing private work that is a systemic problem in how doctors are required to deliver services after training.

Similarly having a two tier nurse pay structure depending if they are NHS or agency also needs to be somehow reviewed.


__________________

 


Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

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View dreamwaverider's Profile dreamwaverider Flag London 12 Dec 22 11.13pm Send a Private Message to dreamwaverider Add dreamwaverider as a friend

Originally posted by HKOwen

Per the Nuffield Trust NHS cost as a percentage of GDP has doubled 1950 - 2020, from 3.5% to 7%.

In the same period the population has increased 40% from 50 to 70 million.

With the increasing life expectancy by about ten years in the same period and advances
in treatment and the cost of treatment it is inevitable that the cost as a percentage of tax has/will increase.

Most European countries spend 10% ish of GDP, France and Sweden as examples, it is broadly acknowledged they both have better medical outcomes than the UK.

They also have systems that are not 100% free at point of service.

Somehow the politics has to be removed from the NHS debate but no idea how that would ever happen

Starmer and Streeting are now publicly saying things need to change, just not how.

If people have private medical insurance then going private is their decision, nothing political, frees up an NHS service.

If NHS services reduce because of doctors doing private work that is a systemic problem in how doctors are required to deliver services after training.

Similarly having a two tier nurse pay structure depending if they are NHS or agency also needs to be somehow reviewed.


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A lot in there HKO.
Bottom line is that the NHS is dismally failing us now. Elderly care is imploding just as numbers of elderly in need sky rocket. Minimum wage 11% increase next spring will knock care homes out in droves. Next year we will see more drama. Buckle up.

 

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag The garden of England 13 Dec 22 3.39am Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Too many chiefs, not enough Indians.
All to Ďprotectí from mistakes. Well sadly mistakes happen and thatís life.
Pay the compo and move on; donít spend more trying to prevent them when the sums donít add up.
Too much waste, too much lip service, too much keeping people alive instead of just treating them and letting nature take its course, too much nannying and forcing our lifestyle to enable a life past a natural age.
Five a day, donít drink, donít smoke etc etc.
Then when you reach 90 youíve had enough and just want to go but arnt allowed to.
Life wasnít designed to be coverted, it was designed to live, breed then die.

 

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View Midlands Eagle's Profile Midlands Eagle Flag 13 Dec 22 6.10am Send a Private Message to Midlands Eagle Add Midlands Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

Too many chiefs, not enough Indians.
All to Ďprotectí from mistakes. Well sadly mistakes happen and thatís life.

That's not strictly true as it's the Indians that are spending too much time arse covering and not the chiefs.

My wife is a nurse and she says that she spends half of her time filling in forms covering every slightest thing that she has done leaving just half of her working hours to look after the patients

 

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View cROYdonrogers's Profile cROYdonrogers Flag Leamington Spa 13 Dec 22 7.55am Send a Private Message to cROYdonrogers Add cROYdonrogers as a friend

Agree with all above. Needs a complete re think. Can I throw in not offering certain services/procedures on NHS. Some of that wouldn't have been around 40/50 years ago. That list could be open to debate but it does stagger me some of the things on offer.
As to the arse covering that's correct but only because the Chief's impose it. By legislation limit when you can sue the NHS which would cut down the paperwork.

 

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View becky's Profile becky Flag over the moon 13 Dec 22 8.59am Send a Private Message to becky Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add becky as a friend

Quick example of NHS time wasting:

Had a phone call for my husband's annual eye check at local community hospital - appointment made

Had letter confirming said appointment

Had text changing appointment from 11.12 to 11.14 a.m. (yes, you read that right)

Had second letter confirming 'new' appointment

Had 6 more texts over next 2 weeks 'reminding'


If it didn't waste much of their time - it certainly did of mine!

 


A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 13 Dec 22 8.59am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

These are some of the issues that need to be addressed although I doubt the politicians have the balls to do it. If they fix these then fine give them a pay rise but it has to have strings attached.

- Too many people not paying into the NHS and I don't just mean health tourists. The older the population gets the smaller the taxpaying group gets. I am sorry but everybody should pay a minium amount even pensioners.

- Too many staff using the NHS to subsidise their private work from consultants to nurses. What would your boss say if you said sorry I am not available that day I am working for a rival company. A friend was unwell and couldn't get a GP appointment so went to a private clinic and who did she see? Yup her own GP who couldn't see her on the NHS, she went nuts.

- Bed blocking. The NHS needs to have short term care homes like they used to so frail people can be moved there for a couple of weeks before being discharged.

 


One more point

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 13 Dec 22 9.01am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by becky

Quick example of NHS time wasting:

Had a phone call for my husband's annual eye check at local community hospital - appointment made

Had letter confirming said appointment

Had text changing appointment from 11.12 to 11.14 a.m. (yes, you read that right)

Had second letter confirming 'new' appointment

Had 6 more texts over next 2 weeks 'reminding'


If it didn't waste much of their time - it certainly did of mine!

Lucky you I had an appointment at Kings tomorrow it has just been moved to February.

 


One more point

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View becky's Profile becky Flag over the moon 13 Dec 22 9.05am Send a Private Message to becky Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add becky as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

These are some of the issues that need to be addressed although I doubt the politicians have the balls to do it. If they fix these then fine give them a pay rise but it has to have strings attached.

- Too many people not paying into the NHS and I don't just mean health tourists. The older the population gets the smaller the taxpaying group gets. I am sorry but everybody should pay a minium amount even pensioners.

- Too many staff using the NHS to subsidise their private work from consultants to nurses. What would your boss say if you said sorry I am not available that day I am working for a rival company. A friend was unwell and couldn't get a GP appointment so went to a private clinic and who did she see? Yup her own GP who couldn't see her on the NHS, she went nuts.

- Bed blocking. The NHS needs to have short term care homes like they used to so frail people can be moved there for a couple of weeks before being discharged.

Convalescent homes they were called.

I don't understand why they cannot build a few 'Nightingale' type hospitals (or have used the original ones) for this.

As most patients are ready for discharge, they would only need a mininmum of 'qualified' staff and a few health care assistants, with the patients themselves helping with things like meal delivery and drinks rounds as part of their occupational therapy, preparing them for home (obviously only for those who are actually able to help in some way).

This and the 'community spirit' and companionship would probably be far more beneficial all round.

 


A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers

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View YT's Profile YT Flag Oxford 13 Dec 22 9.08am Send a Private Message to YT Add YT as a friend

But we all love the NHS and think it's wonderful and are happy for it to cost as much as it costs.....provided it's other people who are paying for it. And provided we aren't the ones suing the NHS for compensation.

I see the usual luvvies are firmly on the bandwagon with the imminent release of a movie of the Alan Bennett play 'Allelujah'. On BBC Breakfast this morning, Jennifer Saunders was allowed to make at least two incorrect statements without any challenge from the presenters:

1) "with all the NHS cuts going on....blah, blah". Err.. you mean the cuts that have meant more money and a higher percentage of GDP than ever is now being spent on it?

2) (Paraphrased) "I remember when I was young, old people went to hospital, and when they came out they all went to something called a 'convalescent home' to recover. Well where have all the convalescent homes gone now? Old people now just rot in hospital" Errr I'm about the same age as you, Jen, and I certainly don't recall any such thing as an NHS convalescent home, and if there were some, there certainly weren't enough to accommodate ALL old, ill people. My recollection is that old people went into hospital and came out feet first in a box. Now we keep them alive at any cost.

Edited by YT (13 Dec 2022 9.10am)

 


Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)

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View Willo's Profile Willo Flag South coast - west of Brighton. 13 Dec 22 9.14am Send a Private Message to Willo Add Willo as a friend

Originally posted by YT

But we all love the NHS and think it's wonderful and are happy for it to cost as much as it costs.....provided it's other people who are paying for it. And provided we aren't the ones suing the NHS for compensation.

I see the usual luvvies are firmly on the bandwagon with the imminent release of a movie of the Alan Bennett play 'Allelujah'. On BBC Breakfast this morning, Jennifer Saunders was allowed to make at least two incorrect statements without any challenge from the presenters:

1) "with all the NHS cuts going on....blah, blah". Err.. you mean the cuts that have meant more money and a higher percentage of GDP than ever is now being spent on it?

2) (Paraphrased) "I remember when I was young, old people went to hospital, and when they came out they all went to something called a 'convalescent home' to recover. Well where have all the convalescent homes gone now? Old people now just rot in hospital" Errr I'm about the same age as you, Jen, and I certainly don't recall any such thing as an NHS convalescent home, and if there were some, there certainly weren't enough to accommodate ALL old, ill people. My recollection is that old people went into hospital and came out feet first in a box. Now we keep them alive at any cost.

Edited by YT (13 Dec 2022 9.10am)

Not forgetting the 13,300 new NHS doctors and nurses this year.

Edited by Willo (13 Dec 2022 9.16am)

 

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View NEILLO's Profile NEILLO Flag Shoreham-by-Sea 13 Dec 22 9.50am Send a Private Message to NEILLO Add NEILLO as a friend

At its inception, the NHS was a great concept that was fit for purpose at the time.But it no longer is.

As well as the obvious - eg the increase in population, the NHS has suffered from becoming a political football by both of the main parties.

Just as we talk about banks being too big to fail, I think the NHS has become too big to succeed. A Total Review and implementation of the outcomes would take years to complete and even then be subject to the approval of whoever was in power at the time.

Wastage and inefficiency have now become the norm. Throwing more money at the NHS will not solve the overriding problem.

Like it or not, I think there needs to be a shift towards incentivising those that can afford private health care rather than penalising them, as is currently the case if you receive this as a employment perk. I'm not advocating moving to the U.S. model of healthcare, but a hybrid that can relieve the pressure on the overstretched NHS.

 


Old, Ungifted and White

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