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May 1 2024 11.35am

Andy Burnham , too late

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Online Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 22 Jan 24 1.23pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Not just me. Many of those who view the trends with eyes that see them through a prism that recalls Europe in the 1930s also finds them disturbing.

In one German region the AfD have already been banned for promoting openly fascist ideas.

Edited by Wisbech Eagle (21 Jan 2024 7.10pm)

I can't imagine the AfD being banned due to being the most popular, or second most popular party in the polls. Perhaps you should ask why that is? So many fascists? All those Swastika brown shirts getting dusted off in the attic - or something else perhaps?
I wonder why so many average, normal people would vote for them?

I guess Hitler's popularity was largely due to economic crises. What current crisis is affecting people so much that they'd vote for right wing parties all across Europe I wonder?

Just fake news and popularism I suppose. It's not like people are seeing and experiencing anything that might make them vote ring wing on a daily basis is it? Because, after all, there is no problem is there?

 


Red and Blue Army!

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 22 Jan 24 2.14pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle


Whether anything is better, or worse, is a subjective question.

Regarding another’s opinion as criminal is what is insulting and nonsensical.

Accepting reality and responding to its needs is 100% more productive than moaning about it in a forum.

Changes are a fact of life. Sometimes what is positive in one way brings challenges in another. That’s what we face. Not a disaster to just cry into your computer screen over. Challenges to be met and overcome.

Politicians haven’t engineered these changes. They are evolutionary and international. The British way of life has not and will not be sacrificed. It needs to be emphasised, protected and respect demanded. That requires effort.

I am doing my bit. Why aren’t you? Have you just given up?

That is nonsense. There is no evolution at work.

There is an increasing world population, increasing friction, and
a greater desire to migrate for economic reasons.

We have a choice to deny anyone entry to this country, but we choose to hide behind the ECHR.

Europe as a whole has to recognise that this cannot continue. It is just a matter of time. The political pressure will be too great.

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 22 Jan 24 2.20pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

No they don’t.

Most want the illegals to be stopped but recognise the difficulties. Most also know that we cannot manage without overseas recruitment in key areas where there are shortages. Manufacturing can be “offshored”. So can some clerical back office work. Healthcare and construction needs to be done here. Universities need students. Families need to be kept together.

There is a large and noisy group of those instinctively opposed to immigration who haven’t really thought through the consequences of what they want. They though are not the majority.

I'm not doing the pantomime, oh yes they do thing.

I'd have thought that Brexit was proof enough, and things have moved on sharply since then. Immigration has shot to the top of people's concerns.

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 22 Jan 24 11.06pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

like guns & nuclear weapons. After being invented, the Pill is a lobster-pot....no going back.

but......why is fertility on the floor in Europe and not on the floor in Africa ?

cos many in Europe say 'i cannot afford to have a ton of kids, especially at an early age'....and yet nobody in Africa seems to arrive at the same conclusion ?

the consequences of these decisions are now on our doorstep. Wisbech, If you believe my writing to be prejudiced, please illustrate where the truth has deviated from these opinions ?

Edited by PalazioVecchio (22 Jan 2024 9.28am)

Where have I described your views as prejudiced?

I would have thought it completely obvious why the fertility rates in Europe and Africa are so different. The economies are so different. In most of the third world, where social security and pensions are a dream, having children is regarded as a way of creating people who can feed and look after you in later life.

 


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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 22 Jan 24 11.16pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by ASCPFC

I can't imagine the AfD being banned due to being the most popular, or second most popular party in the polls. Perhaps you should ask why that is? So many fascists? All those Swastika brown shirts getting dusted off in the attic - or something else perhaps?
I wonder why so many average, normal people would vote for them?

I guess Hitler's popularity was largely due to economic crises. What current crisis is affecting people so much that they'd vote for right wing parties all across Europe I wonder?

Just fake news and popularism I suppose. It's not like people are seeing and experiencing anything that might make them vote ring wing on a daily basis is it? Because, after all, there is no problem is there?

It’s being talked about but probably won’t happen as banning it could be the best thing that happened to it and maybe what they want and are trying to engineer.

Much more sensible to defeat bad ideas by good ones. Not all AfD members are openly or even closet fascists, but fascists are more likely to belong to the AfD than to the CD.

It seems one or two branches have gone too far and received bans.

I can understand as well as the next person why the growth in right wing populist sentiment is happening. That doesn’t make it the answer and hopefully the lessons of history won’t be forgotten. We don’t want to see pogroms in Bradford do we?

 


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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 23 Jan 24 12.08am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

That is nonsense. There is no evolution at work.

There is an increasing world population, increasing friction, and
a greater desire to migrate for economic reasons.

We have a choice to deny anyone entry to this country, but we choose to hide behind the ECHR.

Europe as a whole has to recognise that this cannot continue. It is just a matter of time. The political pressure will be too great.

What you, and others here, do in your quest to blame everything on economic migration is either fail to recognise, or just ignore, the elephant in the room.

That elephant is aging. In 2020 for those of us who survive until 10 years or more will on average live to be 87 if male and 89 if female, actually down around a year from 2019 because of the pandemic. This is approximately double what it was 180 years ago and has been steadily increasing. That trend will continue, although somewhat more slowly.

The reasons are obvious. Better nutrition and healthcare along with more understanding of healthy lifestyles.

It has enormous consequences. The proportion of us working to those who don’t is now completely different. More people require care. The health services enable us to live longer but those services need to be staffed. Much more of our national resource goes to providing for the retired than ever in the past.

We don’t just need the same level of historical birthrate to keep things steady. We would need to increase it, when in fact it’s declining.

Increasing the retirement age to match the increased longevity would help, but be very unpopular. People always want their cake and to eat it.

We aren’t alone. Every developed nation faces the same problem and, one way or another, will resort to the same solution.

The only difference will be how this is handled politically.

 


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View PalazioVecchio's Profile PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 23 Jan 24 1.23pm Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend

Mods....please close the thread. No longer anything to do with the title of the OP

 


Eze Peasy at Anfield....

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Online Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 23 Jan 24 1.27pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

It’s being talked about but probably won’t happen as banning it could be the best thing that happened to it and maybe what they want and are trying to engineer.

Much more sensible to defeat bad ideas by good ones. Not all AfD members are openly or even closet fascists, but fascists are more likely to belong to the AfD than to the CD.

It seems one or two branches have gone too far and received bans.

I can understand as well as the next person why the growth in right wing populist sentiment is happening. That doesn’t make it the answer and hopefully the lessons of history won’t be forgotten. We don’t want to see pogroms in Bradford do we?

I'm glad you can see how the average person feels. As for pogroms, no, but deportation of illegal immigrants, or legal migrants who then go on to not work or commit crimes, yes. I also like it that you recognise places like Bradford are a problem. Why should anyone put up with that? People are not invited over to make a slum - yet they do it and get away with it. It makes a mockery of any skilled worker shortage argument. Or indeed, shortage of workers for the agricultural, service, tourist and retail industries.

 


Red and Blue Army!

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View PalazioVecchio's Profile PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 23 Jan 24 6.42pm Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend

Originally posted by ASCPFC

I also like it that you recognise places like Bradford are a problem. Why should anyone put up with that? People are not invited over to make a slum - yet they do it and get away with it.

It makes a mockery of any skilled worker shortage argument. Or indeed, shortage of workers for the agricultural, service, tourist and retail industries.

seemingly we cannot say that. Certainly in Ireland when the new Hate-speech laws are enacted. The most Draconian censorship in the Western World.

 


Eze Peasy at Anfield....

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 23 Jan 24 6.58pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

What you, and others here, do in your quest to blame everything on economic migration is either fail to recognise, or just ignore, the elephant in the room.

That elephant is aging. In 2020 for those of us who survive until 10 years or more will on average live to be 87 if male and 89 if female, actually down around a year from 2019 because of the pandemic. This is approximately double what it was 180 years ago and has been steadily increasing. That trend will continue, although somewhat more slowly.

The reasons are obvious. Better nutrition and healthcare along with more understanding of healthy lifestyles.

It has enormous consequences. The proportion of us working to those who don’t is now completely different. More people require care. The health services enable us to live longer but those services need to be staffed. Much more of our national resource goes to providing for the retired than ever in the past.

We don’t just need the same level of historical birthrate to keep things steady. We would need to increase it, when in fact it’s declining.

Increasing the retirement age to match the increased longevity would help, but be very unpopular. People always want their cake and to eat it.

We aren’t alone. Every developed nation faces the same problem and, one way or another, will resort to the same solution.

The only difference will be how this is handled politically.

You don't seem to grasp simple concepts.

Immigrants get old too. If you keep adding to a population, you will have a greater number of old people, unless either the birth rate rises rapidly or you keep bringing in ever increasing numbers from aboard.
Since immigrants birth rate drops over a few generations, the latter will occur.

As I have said a thousand times, this is a self defeating policy that can only result in insufficient resources, over crowding and eventual societal disintegration.

Please understand before one of us dies.

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 23 Jan 24 7.40pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by ASCPFC

I'm glad you can see how the average person feels. As for pogroms, no, but deportation of illegal immigrants, or legal migrants who then go on to not work or commit crimes, yes. I also like it that you recognise places like Bradford are a problem. Why should anyone put up with that? People are not invited over to make a slum - yet they do it and get away with it. It makes a mockery of any skilled worker shortage argument. Or indeed, shortage of workers for the agricultural, service, tourist and retail industries.

The vast majority of those born overseas who live in Bradford are now British citizens who are entitled to just the same protections as everyone else. Deportation isn’t really practical is it?

We need to deal with all citizens who avoid work or commit crimes in the same way. Resolutely.

Those here on a work or study visa, I am pretty sure, would have them withdrawn if they were convicted of a crime. I don’t suppose there are too many of them in Bradford.

 


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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 23 Jan 24 8.03pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

You don't seem to grasp simple concepts.

Immigrants get old too. If you keep adding to a population, you will have a greater number of old people, unless either the birth rate rises rapidly or you keep bringing in ever increasing numbers from aboard.
Since immigrants birth rate drops over a few generations, the latter will occur.

As I have said a thousand times, this is a self defeating policy that can only result in insufficient resources, over crowding and eventual societal disintegration.

Please understand before one of us dies.

You are stating the obvious. Of course if our population increases whoever is part of that population will grow old too, whatever their country of birth.

It isn’t though a self-defeating policy. It’s the only viable policy. We need to provide the resources to match the need for sure, especially housing. Automation and a much longer working life will mitigate the need in the future but right now there isn’t an alternative.

Unless you are prepared to see our health service collapse and for there to be labour shortages in many areas.

Dealing with cultural problems is an important but entirely separate matter.

I don’t have any hope of you ever understanding this.

 


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