Racism and Terrorism

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Petealiator 1066 Country! 15 Jan 03 11.24am
Quote Glad All Over at 15 Jan 2003 9:49am I'm sure that there are bad people amongst the asylum seekers, just like in every section of society, but the vast majority are scared, confused, ordinary people who have had to flee to a strange country, terrified for their lives and the lives of their families, leaving homes, friends, possessions, everything behind. Try and imagine what it must be like for them. I can't even begin. And what do you regard as English? Someone born here? I'm sure that's not good enough for you. How many generations would you have to go down before you were accepted as English? How far back would you yourself have to go to find non-'English' ancestry? You can't use colour any more, because alot of the asylum seekers are white. It must be difficult for you and your buddies to draw the lines these days. Yeah, they must be terrified as they passed through dictatorial hell holes like Holland, Belgium, Spain, France, I dunno how they stayed sane! Let's ask some of the Islamic states how they determine their nationality shall we? Let's ask the Saudis how long it takes an Englishman to become a Saudi with full Saudi rights, equal to that of a Saudi arab, see what they say, shall we? Shall we ask the good people of Zimbabwe if they consider the white farmers to be white Africans of just white pigs ripe for slaughter! Englishness is determined by the heart and mind, if you love England and respect her native culture and would die defending her and you happen to have either been born here or your parents were, then you are English! Where as you, Mr 'Sad All Over' are a gutless jellyfish and you make me sick to the stomach! To think hundreds of thousands of good men died defending England against the real nazi's, just so turds like you can sell her down the river! I suppose people like you would have bleated about the 'poor innocent Germans' during the German city bombing campaign of WWII? Would you have called Churchill a war mongerer? You are a traitor and a coward! Edited by Petealiator (15 Jan 2003 11:24am) My Rocksteady band... [Link] [Link] IT'S NOT SKA, IT'S ROCKSTEADY!
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Petealiator

1066 Country! 15 Jan 03 11.24am

Quote Glad All Over at 15 Jan 2003 9:49am

I'm sure that there are bad people amongst the asylum seekers, just like in every section of society, but the vast majority are scared, confused, ordinary people who have had to flee to a strange country, terrified for their lives and the lives of their families, leaving homes, friends, possessions, everything behind. Try and imagine what it must be like for them. I can't even begin.
And what do you regard as English? Someone born here? I'm sure that's not good enough for you. How many generations would you have to go down before you were accepted as English? How far back would you yourself have to go to find non-'English' ancestry? You can't use colour any more, because alot of the asylum seekers are white. It must be difficult for you and your buddies to draw the lines these days.

Yeah, they must be terrified as they passed through dictatorial hell holes like Holland, Belgium, Spain, France, I dunno how they stayed sane!

Let's ask some of the Islamic states how they determine their nationality shall we? Let's ask the Saudis how long it takes an Englishman to become a Saudi with full Saudi rights, equal to that of a Saudi arab, see what they say, shall we? Shall we ask the good people of Zimbabwe if they consider the white farmers to be white Africans of just white pigs ripe for slaughter!

Englishness is determined by the heart and mind, if you love England and respect her native culture and would die defending her and you happen to have either been born here or your parents were, then you are English! Where as you, Mr 'Sad All Over' are a gutless jellyfish and you make me sick to the stomach! To think hundreds of thousands of good men died defending England against the real nazi's, just so turds like you can sell her down the river! I suppose people like you would have bleated about the 'poor innocent Germans' during the German city bombing campaign of WWII? Would you have called Churchill a war mongerer? You are a traitor and a coward!

Edited by Petealiator (15 Jan 2003 11:24am)

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Penge Eagle Beckenham 15 Jan 03 11.30am
Some cracking opinions, I can't really disagree with any of them!
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Penge Eagle

Beckenham 15 Jan 03 11.30am

Some cracking opinions, I can't really disagree with any of them!

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Jimble Brighton 15 Jan 03 11.35am
Quote grump at 14 Jan 2003 11:30pm of non English ancestry. If you met me in a pub, you probably wouldn't bat an eyelid. If you heard me speak you would think I'm South London through and through. As it happens, I'm Irish and therefore of 'non English ancestry' but I was raised in New Addington. My parents had to suffer the 'no blacks, no dogs, no Irish' when they first came here. Do you have a problem with Paddies as well or is it just eastern Europeans and Muslims? Edited by Jimble (15 Jan 2003 11:53am) [Link]
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Jimble

Brighton 15 Jan 03 11.35am

Quote grump at 14 Jan 2003 11:30pm

of non English ancestry.

If you met me in a pub, you probably wouldn't bat an eyelid. If you heard me speak you would think I'm South London through and through. As it happens, I'm Irish and therefore of 'non English ancestry' but I was raised in New Addington. My parents had to suffer the 'no blacks, no dogs, no Irish' when they first came here. Do you have a problem with Paddies as well or is it just eastern Europeans and Muslims?

Edited by Jimble (15 Jan 2003 11:53am)

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Glad All Over Bath 15 Jan 03 12.03pm
Quote Petealiator at 15 Jan 2003 11:24am I suppose people like you would have bleated about the 'poor innocent Germans'. Yes, I may well have done. I am certainly anti-war in general and definately against the killing of innocent civilians. What makes it far worse is when there is no motive for the war other than financial or political gain, as is the case now. You call the Germans of World War Two the real Nazis, but were their opinions that different from yours? Which side would you have been on? As for being a traitor and a coward. If being a traitor is to want to keep your country clean of idiots like you, then yes I am a traitor. If being brave is wanting other people to drop bombs on innocent people, then again you are right, I am certainly not brave. Edited by Glad All Over (15 Jan 2003 12:25pm)
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Glad All Over

Bath 15 Jan 03 12.03pm

Quote Petealiator at 15 Jan 2003 11:24am

I suppose people like you would have bleated about the 'poor innocent Germans'.

Yes, I may well have done. I am certainly anti-war in general and definately against the killing of innocent civilians. What makes it far worse is when there is no motive for the war other than financial or political gain, as is the case now.

You call the Germans of World War Two the real Nazis, but were their opinions that different from yours? Which side would you have been on?

As for being a traitor and a coward. If being a traitor is to want to keep your country clean of idiots like you, then yes I am a traitor. If being brave is wanting other people to drop bombs on innocent people, then again you are right, I am certainly not brave.

Edited by Glad All Over (15 Jan 2003 12:25pm)

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OknotOK Cockfosters, London 15 Jan 03 12.39pm
Quote Glad All Over at 15 Jan 2003 12:03pm Quote Petealiator at 15 Jan 2003 11:24am I suppose people like you would have bleated about the 'poor innocent Germans'. Yes, I may well have done. I am certainly anti-war in general and definately against the killing of innocent civilians. What makes it far worse is when there is no motive for the war other than financial or political gain, as is the case now. As for being a traitor and a coward. If being a traitor is to want to keep your country clean of idiots like you, then yes I am a traitor. If being brave is wanting other people to drop bombs on innocent people, then again you are right, I am certainly not brave. Edited by Glad All Over (15 Jan 2003 12:25pm) Definitely agree GAO. Not supporting a war which is currently only justified but supposition and economic reasons does not consitute cowardice in my book. The anti-war marches I have been on and the people I have seen there don't deserve to be labelled cowards. And Petealiator, your definition of englishness is a remarkably narrow one. I think you will find there are a very significant proportion of the country would not use that as anything approaching a definition. I am not even sure there is such a thing as a "native culture" of England -- given we are almost exclusively a nation of immigrants if you go back far enough. "It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show
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OknotOK

Cockfosters, London 15 Jan 03 12.39pm

Quote Glad All Over at 15 Jan 2003 12:03pm

Quote Petealiator at 15 Jan 2003 11:24am

I suppose people like you would have bleated about the 'poor innocent Germans'.

Edited by Glad All Over (15 Jan 2003 12:25pm)

Definitely agree GAO.

Not supporting a war which is currently only justified but supposition and economic reasons does not consitute cowardice in my book. The anti-war marches I have been on and the people I have seen there don't deserve to be labelled cowards.

And Petealiator, your definition of englishness is a remarkably narrow one. I think you will find there are a very significant proportion of the country would not use that as anything approaching a definition. I am not even sure there is such a thing as a "native culture" of England -- given we are almost exclusively a nation of immigrants if you go back far enough.

"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show

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Petealiator 1066 Country! 15 Jan 03 12.39pm
Quote Glad All Over at 15 Jan 2003 12:03pm Quote Petealiator at 15 Jan 2003 11:24am I suppose people like you would have bleated about the 'poor innocent Germans'. Yes, I may well have done. I am certainly anti-war in general and definately against the killing of innocent civilians. What makes it far worse is when there is no motive for the war other than financial or political gain, as is the case now. You call the Germans of World War Two the real Nazis, but were their opinions that different from yours? Which side would you have been on? Ooh, that's a tough one (NOT!), I would have been on the side of right of course, no question; England and her allies, so don't try to brand me a secret nazi just because I'm a patriot. Most people on this forum could easily have answered that one for you! Most people on here know that I don't argue and fight for some colourful political ideal, there's no hidden agenda with me, I fight and argue for England and her native people! The war on Iraq IS justified, it is a war on terror, as was WWII, which was seen by one or two as a pretty damn strong motive. Yes, the nazi's had very different views to mine and in fact, most British / English nationalists. If Bomber Harris has not bombed Dresden and other German cities and it's "innocent" civilian population (you know the one, the one that was mass-producing weapons like a well-oiled machine for the nazi's war effort) the way Hitler bombed London and Coventry, we may not have won the war at all, but even if we had, many thousands more good men would have lost their lives, but then, I'm sure you could have lived with that. There will always be people like yourself that hide their selfish cowardly fears behind fluffy political ideals, but without the patriots and heroes that have given their lives in the name of freedom, you my friend, would not even be here. So go on your 'Stop The War' march, feel really good about yourself, but in the meantime, the brave people of this world will continue to protect your rights to live in peace by giving their own lives! My Rocksteady band... [Link] [Link] IT'S NOT SKA, IT'S ROCKSTEADY!
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Petealiator

1066 Country! 15 Jan 03 12.39pm

Quote Glad All Over at 15 Jan 2003 12:03pm

Quote Petealiator at 15 Jan 2003 11:24am

I suppose people like you would have bleated about the 'poor innocent Germans'.

You call the Germans of World War Two the real Nazis, but were their opinions that different from yours? Which side would you have been on?

Ooh, that's a tough one (NOT!), I would have been on the side of right of course, no question; England and her allies, so don't try to brand me a secret nazi just because I'm a patriot. Most people on this forum could easily have answered that one for you! Most people on here know that I don't argue and fight for some colourful political ideal, there's no hidden agenda with me, I fight and argue for England and her native people!

The war on Iraq IS justified, it is a war on terror, as was WWII, which was seen by one or two as a pretty damn strong motive.

Yes, the nazi's had very different views to mine and in fact, most British / English nationalists.
If Bomber Harris has not bombed Dresden and other German cities and it's "innocent" civilian population (you know the one, the one that was mass-producing weapons like a well-oiled machine for the nazi's war effort) the way Hitler bombed London and Coventry, we may not have won the war at all, but even if we had, many thousands more good men would have lost their lives, but then, I'm sure you could have lived with that.

There will always be people like yourself that hide their selfish cowardly fears behind fluffy political ideals, but without the patriots and heroes that have given their lives in the name of freedom, you my friend, would not even be here. So go on your 'Stop The War' march, feel really good about yourself, but in the meantime, the brave people of this world will continue to protect your rights to live in peace by giving their own lives!

My Rocksteady band...
[Link]
[Link]
IT'S NOT SKA, IT'S ROCKSTEADY!

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eulalio Girls just wanna have Funt 15 Jan 03 12.52pm
Quote Petealiator at 15 Jan 2003 12:39pm The war on Iraq IS justified, it is a war on terror, as was WWII, which was seen by one or two as a pretty damn strong motive. Hang on a second, what proof do you have? I have not seen one thing yet which even slightly convinces me that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction, or willingness to use them, let alone any links to Al Qaeda (which may not actually exist anyway). This is an oil war. The sooner we admit that, the better. And who armed Saddam in the first place? And Bin Laden? The real terrorists, that's who -- in other words, WE DID. As far as the Nazi thing goes, do you think ALL Germans were Nazis? I know a significant minority of English people still think that's the case today, but... face up to your share of the blame you filthy terrorist sympathiser - Petealiator 8/7/2005 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Intolerance of ambiguity is the mark of an authoritarian personality - Theodor Adorno
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eulalio

Girls just wanna have Funt 15 Jan 03 12.52pm

Quote Petealiator at 15 Jan 2003 12:39pm

The war on Iraq IS justified, it is a war on terror, as was WWII, which was seen by one or two as a pretty damn strong motive.

Hang on a second, what proof do you have? I have not seen one thing yet which even slightly convinces me that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction, or willingness to use them, let alone any links to Al Qaeda (which may not actually exist anyway).

This is an oil war. The sooner we admit that, the better.

And who armed Saddam in the first place? And Bin Laden? The real terrorists, that's who -- in other words, WE DID.

As far as the Nazi thing goes, do you think ALL Germans were Nazis? I know a significant minority of English people still think that's the case today, but...

face up to your share of the blame you filthy terrorist sympathiser - Petealiator 8/7/2005
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Intolerance of ambiguity is the mark of an authoritarian personality - Theodor Adorno

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eulalio Girls just wanna have Funt 15 Jan 03 12.53pm
Oh... and anyone who thinks this war -- or any other -- will promote peace, really needs to extract their heads from their anuses. Come on, surely you can do better than that? face up to your share of the blame you filthy terrorist sympathiser - Petealiator 8/7/2005 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Intolerance of ambiguity is the mark of an authoritarian personality - Theodor Adorno
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eulalio

Girls just wanna have Funt 15 Jan 03 12.53pm

Oh... and anyone who thinks this war -- or any other -- will promote peace, really needs to extract their heads from their anuses. Come on, surely you can do better than that?

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the despotic banana Dept. of Baboon Maintenance 15 Jan 03 1.45pm
Quite right HMHS, it's not unreasonable to suggest that George W. Bush is killing children for Caspian oil. If further proof were needed, just look at how many of Bush's cabinet have links with oil companies, they even named an oil tanker after Condaleeza Rice for Christ's sake! Ask me about Ronald de Boer.
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the despotic banana

Dept. of Baboon Maintenance 15 Jan 03 1.45pm

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Quite right HMHS, it's not unreasonable to suggest that George W. Bush is killing children for Caspian oil. If further proof were needed, just look at how many of Bush's cabinet have links with oil companies, they even named an oil tanker after Condaleeza Rice for Christ's sake!

Ask me about Ronald de Boer.

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eulalio Girls just wanna have Funt 15 Jan 03 2.00pm
Quote the despotic banana at 15 Jan 2003 1:45pm Quite right HMHS, it's not unreasonable to suggest that George W. Bush is killing children for Caspian oil. If further proof were needed, just look at how many of Bush's cabinet have links with oil companies, they even named an oil tanker after Condaleeza Rice for Christ's sake! As a little aside, I was interested to note on two recent visits to Muslim countries, that Condy is universally loathed, with a passion to which Dubya, Rumsfeld, Powell and the others can only aspire to. Sadly my Arabic is way too scratchy to pick up on exactly why she has been singled out, but there it is. They hate her so much it hurts!! face up to your share of the blame you filthy terrorist sympathiser - Petealiator 8/7/2005 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Intolerance of ambiguity is the mark of an authoritarian personality - Theodor Adorno
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eulalio

Girls just wanna have Funt 15 Jan 03 2.00pm

Quote the despotic banana at 15 Jan 2003 1:45pm

As a little aside, I was interested to note on two recent visits to Muslim countries, that Condy is universally loathed, with a passion to which Dubya, Rumsfeld, Powell and the others can only aspire to.

Sadly my Arabic is way too scratchy to pick up on exactly why she has been singled out, but there it is. They hate her so much it hurts!!

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Petealiator 1066 Country! 15 Jan 03 2.50pm
Quote OknotOK at 15 Jan 2003 12:39pm Petealiator, your definition of englishness is a remarkably narrow one. I think you will find there are a very significant proportion of the country would not use that as anything approaching a definition. I am not even sure there is such a thing as a "native culture" of England -- given we are almost exclusively a nation of immigrants if you go back far enough. Oh here we f*ing go, yeah the English are the only people in the world that have no native culture! Christ! What the f's wrong with you? We have a culture as rich as any in the world, but of course it's not as important as 'ethnic' culture so you just go ahead and dismiss it. So we're all immigrants are we? Even after a thousand years and more? Blimey, you're pretty tough on immigrants aint ya? So, to recap, we not only have "no culture", we're also not a actually a native populace at all either, we have no nation! We are the lost tribe of Europe! Do we even exist? Every damn nation in the world other than Africa is filled with "immigrants, if you go back far enough"! We are English and we have been for fourteen or fifteen hundred years whether you and your student pals like it or not, if not, why don't you bog off to Iraq and tell them they have no culture! As for my definition of Englishness, how the f is that narrow? I think you'll find there's a bigger fing proportion of the country who WOULD see it as a valid description! How the f would you describe it? Anyone who steps foot on English soil whether they're here to wipe us out or not? Slugs, I agree the world needs proof and I'm sure it'll come, but at the end of the day, you wouldn't believe it anyway! Also, the way I see it, WWII was a pretty effective action in affecting peace in Europe, sure, appeasement would have ultimately avoided war, well, for a while anyway, and we'd all be speaking German now, but, what the f*, just as long as we continue to say Halten Sie Den Krieg auf! Pah! My Rocksteady band... [Link] [Link] IT'S NOT SKA, IT'S ROCKSTEADY!
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Petealiator

1066 Country! 15 Jan 03 2.50pm

Quote OknotOK at 15 Jan 2003 12:39pm

Petealiator, your definition of englishness is a remarkably narrow one. I think you will find there are a very significant proportion of the country would not use that as anything approaching a definition. I am not even sure there is such a thing as a "native culture" of England -- given we are almost exclusively a nation of immigrants if you go back far enough.

Oh here we f***ing go, yeah the English are the only people in the world that have no native culture! Christ! What the f***'s wrong with you? We have a culture as rich as any in the world, but of course it's not as important as 'ethnic' culture so you just go ahead and dismiss it. So we're all immigrants are we? Even after a thousand years and more? Blimey, you're pretty tough on immigrants aint ya? So, to recap, we not only have "no culture", we're also not a actually a native populace at all either, we have no nation! We are the lost tribe of Europe! Do we even exist?

Every damn nation in the world other than Africa is filled with "immigrants, if you go back far enough"! We are English and we have been for fourteen or fifteen hundred years whether you and your student pals like it or not, if not, why don't you bog off to Iraq and tell them they have no culture!

As for my definition of Englishness, how the f*** is that narrow? I think you'll find there's a bigger f***ing proportion of the country who WOULD see it as a valid description! How the f*** would you describe it? Anyone who steps foot on English soil whether they're here to wipe us out or not?

Slugs, I agree the world needs proof and I'm sure it'll come, but at the end of the day, you wouldn't believe it anyway! Also, the way I see it, WWII was a pretty effective action in affecting peace in Europe, sure, appeasement would have ultimately avoided war, well, for a while anyway, and we'd all be speaking German now, but, what the f***, just as long as we continue to say Halten Sie Den Krieg auf!

Pah!

My Rocksteady band...
[Link]
[Link]
IT'S NOT SKA, IT'S ROCKSTEADY!

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eulalio Girls just wanna have Funt 15 Jan 03 3.12pm
Quote Petealiator at 15 Jan 2003 2:50pm Quote OknotOK at 15 Jan 2003 12:39pm Petealiator, your definition of englishness is a remarkably narrow one. I think you will find there are a very significant proportion of the country would not use that as anything approaching a definition. I am not even sure there is such a thing as a "native culture" of England -- given we are almost exclusively a nation of immigrants if you go back far enough. Oh here we f*ing go, yeah the English are the only people in the world that have no native culture! Christ! What the f's wrong with you? We have a culture as rich as any in the world, but of course it's not as important as 'ethnic' culture so you just go ahead and dismiss it. So we're all immigrants are we? Even after a thousand years and more? Blimey, you're pretty tough on immigrants aint ya? So, to recap, we not only have "no culture", we're also not a actually a native populace at all either, we have no nation! We are the lost tribe of Europe! Do we even exist? Every damn nation in the world other than Africa is filled with "immigrants, if you go back far enough"! We are English and we have been for fourteen or fifteen hundred years whether you and your student pals like it or not, if not, why don't you bog off to Iraq and tell them they have no culture! As for my definition of Englishness, how the f is that narrow? I think you'll find there's a bigger fing proportion of the country who WOULD see it as a valid description! How the f would you describe it? Anyone who steps foot on English soil whether they're here to wipe us out or not? Slugs, I agree the world needs proof and I'm sure it'll come, but at the end of the day, you wouldn't believe it anyway! Also, the way I see it, WWII was a pretty effective action in affecting peace in Europe, sure, appeasement would have ultimately avoided war, well, for a while anyway, and we'd all be speaking German now, but, what the f*, just as long as we continue to say Halten Sie Den Krieg auf! Pah! Cracking post, as ever, Pete. A few additional points, if I may... 1. Of course the English have a culture, it would be foolish to say otherwise. A huge part of that culture is why we are all on this website. And there's Morris Dancing too. 2. I love that "bog off to Iraq and tell them they have no culture"... classic. Where shall we start -- Babylon, the Ziggurat of Ur...? So much of modern civilisation started in what is now Iraq, it seems rather ironic that we now want to bomb them into the stone age. 3. I would believe the alleged proof that the govt holds, if it was believable. I would, honest. And I might even think a war was justified. But not now I don't. 4. "WWII was a pretty effective action in affecting peace in Europe"... in a sense it was, yes, in that it rid us of the Nazis and so forth (except from Spain of course). However, ask someone like Dragan if the post-war legacy really was peace. Leaving aside the Cold War, the Yugoslav conflict was one of the worst wars in history, and Yugoslavia was only "invented" in 1945. Another superb thread. War, huh! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing! face up to your share of the blame you filthy terrorist sympathiser - Petealiator 8/7/2005 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Intolerance of ambiguity is the mark of an authoritarian personality - Theodor Adorno
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eulalio

Girls just wanna have Funt 15 Jan 03 3.12pm

Quote Petealiator at 15 Jan 2003 2:50pm

Quote OknotOK at 15 Jan 2003 12:39pm

Pah!

Cracking post, as ever, Pete. A few additional points, if I may...

1. Of course the English have a culture, it would be foolish to say otherwise. A huge part of that culture is why we are all on this website. And there's Morris Dancing too.

2. I love that "bog off to Iraq and tell them they have no culture"... classic. Where shall we start -- Babylon, the Ziggurat of Ur...? So much of modern civilisation started in what is now Iraq, it seems rather ironic that we now want to bomb them into the stone age.

3. I would believe the alleged proof that the govt holds, if it was believable. I would, honest. And I might even think a war was justified. But not now I don't.

4. "WWII was a pretty effective action in affecting peace in Europe"... in a sense it was, yes, in that it rid us of the Nazis and so forth (except from Spain of course). However, ask someone like Dragan if the post-war legacy really was peace. Leaving aside the Cold War, the Yugoslav conflict was one of the worst wars in history, and Yugoslavia was only "invented" in 1945.

Another superb thread.

War, huh! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing!

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