The measure of a civilised country is how they treat the lowest members of their society. Yes, some people in the UK do indeed have no respect whatsoever for other people -- but what does it say about US, if we decide they are not worthy of the same rights as the rest of us?

To repeat (and slightly amend) a question I asked earlier on this thread -- where do you draw the line? At what point does someone move from being a criminal yet still entitled to his human rights, to a vile scumbag deserving of a bullet in the back?

Just asking. :G

face up to your share of the blame you filthy terrorist sympathiser - Petealiator 8/7/2005
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Intolerance of ambiguity is the mark of an authoritarian personality - Theodor Adorno

I don't know enough about the ins and the outs of this case to comment specifically but i know that if someone breaks into my house while i am there, they are in for a hiding. Fortunately for the little s*** who broke into my old flat, i was at work at the time but the stupid cow in the flat below me actually believed he "was taking my computer to fix it"....

Anyway, the insults flying round on here are OTT, people are reading between the lines on posts and assuming that people are taking side-swipes at each other. Why does any debate like this always turn into a name-calling, "my dads better than your dad" type argument?

And there is really no need, we all know HMHS is a mass debater

I'm not a violent man, in fact I hate violence in general but as Bexter says I must have a very dark place in my life.

It's just that 20 years ago my mum was almost killed when a burglar beat her up, slashed her arms to the bone and stabbed her in the chest so hard that the 10" carving knife he used bent in her breast bone. The police were excellent, a WPC spotted the man in the street and wrestled him to the ground a week later. During the run up to the trial we had to suffer the burglars mates making house calls trying (and succeeding) to frighten us, we had to suffer crank phone calls from nuts who had read the newspaper reports THEN to our and the police's dismay the man received only three years for the assault and seven years for a string of previous burglaries. The sentences ran concurrently and he was out in less that four years to carry on his life as normal. Under today's criminal justice system he would be out in less.

My mother had nightmares for years, found it difficult to leave the house and has been mentally scarred since. Five years ago she was burgled again (fortunately when she was out) and the nightmares started again.

If you are woken in the night to hear someone downstairs rummaging through your belongings you won't know if it's a 16 year old 'loveable rogue' or a knife wielding psychopath. So, I can fully sympathise with anyone who tools themselves up for such an occasion and at the same time have no sympathy whatsoever for the criminal, whoever they are or whatever happens to them as a result.

I don't believe in the death penalty for burglary BUT if these people choose to live outside the law in this way and terrorise innocent people then they deserve the consequences. I for one would use any amount of force to protect my family from an intruder and I won't be stopping to ask them their age or background.

Just to jump in on this convo..

Any vile f***ing c*** who enters my house to try and steal anything enters under the pretense that ill do anything to get him/her out. The law is a f***ing arse and as Jolly said, its all about protecting the rights of the villain. f*** the victim.

I bet Tony Martin would do exactly the same thing again if he had the chance.

All this namby pampbying around is bolloxs, this country is f***ed and people who stand by these decisions will be the death of it..

I'm down the lane on Sunday morning, hung over and forever yawning.
I look for trousers that will fit me, she buys a yellow shirt that's sickly
A sarsparilla drink turns white teeth shades of pink

Jolly, jolly good Pete. You are obviously a man who doesn't take too kindly to being challenged.

I believe all human life is sacred, I also believe people shouldn't be given access to guns and I also believe that you should not take the law into your hands. It has been mentioned on this thread that people who act outside of the law deserve death, beatings, torture, etc., again I disagree. If people do take the law into their own hands, then we are regressing to a state of anarchy. Then we have vigilantes and militias and then 'who will police the police'?

I will also oppose you on the fact that 'loads of people are concerned about it' - I doubt they are. Most people don't have guns and most of those who do wouldn't discharge it in the dark at intruders. So it's not like education, health, national security, pensions or employment that affects everyone.

Yes, there do need to be clear guidelines on the restraint of intruders and how people should deal with them, but releasing a person from prison who has gone too far and has taken life would be wrong as it would set a precedent. We could then have a situation where people are shot because they are p*ssed and went into someone's garden to relieve themselves, for example, and the person doing the shooting would say, 'they were intent on burgling me'. That may sound dramatic but it could happen.

Also remember that young kids do do stupid things - how would you feel if your younger brother or son fell in with a bad crowd and on his first burglary, indeed the first time he trangressed the law, he was shot? How do you differentiate in the dark between a frightened and stupid kid and hardened criminal scum? Would you be so damning then?

Edited by matt_himself (20 Jan 2003 9:02pm)

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

A wonderful piece of insight from our resident graduate from the University of Millwall. What was your degree in JohnSmithsSmooth? Knucklescraping? Windowlicking? Pointing at aircraft and shouting 'big silver bird'?

As for the bum wiping, I've managed to master that. But you really should stop wiping your arse against against a tree after you've laid cable. Most of us have evolved beyond that.

I will enter into civilised discourse if you will too.

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02