The sorest losers in history. They just don't give up do they? Excuses, excuses, excuses.

McDonnell speaking on Andrew Marr Show a few minutes ago has now latched on to the 'Media smears on Jeremy" were reason Labour was defeated. He's still desperately smearing Johnson at the same time - usual "liar, etc".

Why don't they just shut up, give up, resign, and make room for a Labour bunch who the electorate will actually believe and vote for.

Following on from the reference to "Sub-Species" on HOl. I accept no individuals were named however one can make judgements as to their identity!

It is a fact that this forum contains a disproportionate number of hard Brexiteers than exist in the population as a whole. A fact that many of that number themselves acknowledge. Hence the sub species reference.

Apropos "You are free to ignore me", one is grateful for such permission and I shall pay heed to these comments with the resultant effect that my dearth of responses will not provide your diatribe with (To quote Margaret Thatcher) the "Oyxgen of publicity".

Carry on. I don't seek publicity. Much of my purpose here is to try understand why people think as they do. I learned a long time ago that minds here are locked and bolted shut.

Jolly good luck in your efforts to overturn Brexit and to introduce PR. No hope and Bob Hope !!!!

Oh Brexit will be overturned. It's not a question of if, only of when. Probably not in my lifetime or with the EU in it's current format but the tide of history cannot be resisted and towards Europe is where it will take us. In the meantime the immediate focus is on stopping the Labour Party choosing a Corbyn clone as their next leader. Some of them are as fixed in their opinions as those to be found on here. PR will only arrive after we have seen a hung Parliament again, so at least 5 more years. That will happen too because by then Farage and his "Reform" party will also be arguing for it. Mark my words.

Edited by Willo (15 Dec 2019 1.01am)

Trying to dismiss a basic fact as an "old chestnut" is an excuse typical of the type pushed by Johnson in the last months. It just happens to be true!

I suppose that it's customary for losers to try and find positives out of defeat and you are just carrying on the tradition.

There is nothing positive about the result. It was predictable and predicted by me, and by most others who were realistic. Corbyn is to blame. If Blair had been their leader then we would now have a Labour led government and a second confirmatory vote. What must now be done is accept where we are, rethink and plan for the longer term.

Brexit may have played a large part in this year's voting but it wasn't everything. People voted Conservative as they had more faith in a Conservative government running this country rather than Labour's idea of giving billions away to everyone and hoping that there is enough on the magic money tree.

People didn't want a Government run by a terrorist sympathiser and his crony and they didn't want a Home Secretary whose ability to do her job depended on whether she had remembered to take her meds.

True. So if, as has been shown, more people want to have a second vote (and indeed if as the polls consistently say more now want to remain than leave) should the fact that a disastrous opposition mean that the country has to suffer something it doesn't actually want?

Please give it a rest trying to twist statistics to suit your own agenda. Your side lost for the second time. The withdrawal agreement will be ratified and we will come out of the EU on 31st January and I have no doubt that a suitable trade agreement will be signed and sealed by the end of next year despite the protestations of those who didn't believe that Boris could get the EU to come up with a suitable withdrawal agreement as quickly as he did

There is only one "side"! We all live in the UK. I care about what happens to us and not just what happens to me and those who think as I do. This is far too big an issue to be reduced to petty tribal politics and those who seek to do so need to step back and try to see a much bigger picture. Something, on the surface at least, I can give some credit to Johnson for doing in the last couple of days. Time alone will tell if that is genuine.

It means that now that we all know more about what Brexit actually means the electorate voted in a Government that will carry out the wishes of the majority in the 2016 referendum and those that don't like the idea should stop whingeing and moaning and acknowledge that democracy has worked and the will of the people will be carried out

That's just bs and I think you know it. As you acknowledge many voted for entirely negative reasons. Others just to find any kind of resolution. Only if we asked the people a direct question on whether they still wanted to leave the EU on the terms being negotiated would we actually have an answer.

Edited by Midlands Eagle (15 Dec 2019 6.57am)

In the cold light of day, you may wish to reconsider this statement and accept that the remain/left wing leaning posters on here have done their share, including you if I may be so bold

No need. The only "self righteous drivel" that I have seen here comes from a small cabal of hard right posters. Not, of course, that they will recognise that let alone be able to see it.

True. So if, as has been shown, more people want to have a second vote (and indeed if as the polls consistently say more now want to remain than leave) should the fact that a disastrous opposition mean that the country has to suffer something it doesn't actually want?