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 Stirlingsays  04 Sep 20 2.17pm |
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Originally posted by lefty27
Why shouldn’t it be? If it helps keep me at work and helps us return to some kind of normality then surely it’s not a problem? You have the right to make that decision. In my view you don't have the right to force others to. Many of us don't agree with the need for compulsory masks. I regard people being physically attacked for not wearing a mask as a huge infringement of civil liberties.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 04 Sep 20 2.21pm |
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Originally posted by Eaglecoops
That jerk Blair should have been locked up years ago. How he got away with what he did is unbelievable and goes to show that the wheels within wheels turn for you regardless of which side of the political fence you are if you are high enough up the food chain. Blair was a disaster.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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BlueJay  UK 04 Sep 20 2.41pm |
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Originally posted by Eaglecoops
Guys, regardless of whether it is beneficial and the arguments in either direction for that, its not compulsory for all. This is cut and pasted directly from the .Gov website: "Exemption cards Some people may feel more comfortable showing something that says they do not have to wear a face covering. This could be in the form of an exemption card, badge or even a home-made sign. This is a personal choice and is not necessary in law." I would suggest from his behaviour and comments that it's unlikely he has "age, health or disability reason for not wearing a face covering". Therefore it is a requirement to wear one, and also they are not obliged to allow him to travel and can be fined. His childlike paddy held up other people who wanted to travel. He's declaring himself as special or exempt 'just because'. Fine, then he can do so on his own time but on a journey where his behaviour and disregard for the law impacts others.
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| BlueJay UK 04 Sep 20 2.42pm |
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Originally posted by Badger11
I haven't seen the video posted here but I was sent one by a friend which I assume is the same. The passenger is clearly asked to wear a mask or leave the train he refused in an aggressive manner what happened after that was down to him and his surly attitude to the police. If he can't wear a mask due to medical reasons then there is a certificate you can get you just show it to the police and it's "have a nice day, sir". I am surprised that some people on here who are pro law and order seem confused it's fairly black and white case of not co-operating with the police and then suffering the consequences. Black and white it certainly is.
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| Eaglecoops CR3 04 Sep 20 2.47pm |
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Originally posted by BlueJay
I would suggest from his behaviour and comments that it's unlikely he has "age, health or disability reason for not wearing a face covering". Therefore it is a requirement to wear one, and also they are not obliged to allow him to travel and can be fined. His childlike paddy held up other people who wanted to travel. He's declaring himself as special or exempt 'just because'. Fine, then he can do so on his own time but on a journey where his behaviour and disregard for the law impacts others. and I would say that is why we have the law to start off with, because "suggesting" and "knowing" are two entirely different things.
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| BlueJay UK 04 Sep 20 3.09pm |
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Originally posted by Eaglecoops
and I would say that is why we have the law to start off with, because "suggesting" and "knowing" are two entirely different things. The health exemption relies on people being honest regarding their health status, and it designed not to bog down the NHS. Where people are possibly being dishonest or displaying anti social behaviour, no doubt the police display a judgement call. In all likelihood, based on the guys behaviour I cannot blame a police officer for reaching a conclusion that he just didn't want to wear a mask. Which by the way is essentially what he said. No doubt the police had been called, holding up the train and he had refused to either already wear a mask or leave the train. There is no automatic right to travel if you can't abide by the rules. Since it would appear that he had already refused to wear a mask, not give any reason why, and refused to leave the train he had clearly exhausted their patience. If the vast majority of others make an effort he's not so special that he can ignore that without consequence. He can take his self importance elsewhere and let others get on with their day.
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| Eaglecoops CR3 04 Sep 20 3.17pm |
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Originally posted by BlueJay
The health exemption relies on people being honest regarding their health status, and it designed not to bog down the NHS. Where people are possibly being dishonest or displaying anti social behaviour, no doubt the police display a judgement call. In all likelihood, based on the guys behaviour I cannot blame a police officer for reaching a conclusion that he just didn't want to wear a mask. Which by the way is essentially what he said. No doubt the police had been called, holding up the train and he had refused to either already wear a mask or leave the train. There is no automatic right to travel if you can't abide by the rules. Since it would appear that he had already refused to wear a mask, not give any reason why, and refused to leave the train he had clearly exhausted their patience. If the vast majority of others make an effort he's not so special that he can ignore that without consequence. He can take his self importance elsewhere and let others get on with their day. This is a pretty pointless argument, however it is clear as day that you can hear the guy saying, " I do not have to wear a mask" and "you do not have the right to challenge me on this point". He is 100% correct on both points here if he is entitled not to wear one. So you are basing your entire argument on the fact that he is lying and can tell that just from his attitude. The Police Officer started the rough tactics, not the passenger. I wouldn't want you to be on the jury on any case I'm involved in if you make decisions based on what you think might have happened.
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| BlueJay UK 04 Sep 20 3.17pm |
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Originally posted by Eaglecoops
and I would say that is why we have the law to start off with, because "suggesting" and "knowing" are two entirely different things. If he takes issue with how he's been treated then that would be the time where he'd been able to state his case. Since he's unlikely to actually have one, I very much doubt that has or will happen.
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| lefty27 ipswich 04 Sep 20 3.25pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
You have the right to make that decision. In my view you don't have the right to force others to. Many of us don't agree with the need for compulsory masks. I regard people being physically attacked for not wearing a mask as a huge infringement of civil liberties. I still don’t understand why some people are so against it, if it has a positive effect on keeping the virus under control then surly it’s a good thing.
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| BlueJay UK 04 Sep 20 3.28pm |
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Originally posted by Eaglecoops
This is a pretty pointless argument, however it is clear as day that you can hear the guy saying, " I do not have to wear a mask" and "you do not have the right to challenge me on this point". He is 100% correct on both points here if he is entitled not to wear one. So you are basing your entire argument on the fact that he is lying and can tell that just from his attitude. The Police Officer started the rough tactics, not the passenger. I wouldn't want you to be on the jury on any case I'm involved in if you make decisions based on what you think might have happened. Again it's basically an honestly based system. If due to age of health status you have an issue with masks you do not have to obtain permission from your doctor to travel without one. Now if someone wants to try their luck when they do not have any history of breathing problems or legitimate reason to not wear one, and they have been thrown off a train, or fined or arrested if they kick off, they will quickly find that their self important fantasy land logic is trumped by reality. As I stated, if the guy has a legitimate medical issue then I would expect him to take action. The guy refused to leave a train and resisted arrest. 'Rough tactics'. The completely laughable contrast between 'should've obey the law' when there are wild escalations stateside resulting in death, and the attitude here that people should pretty much do as they please when it comes to following the law is priceless. He had plenty of options. Leave the train, wear a mask, calmly state why he's not doing so. Community involves people working together. He put himself in that situation through his own stupid behaviour and had numerous opportunities to avoid what happened. Edited by BlueJay (04 Sep 2020 3.37pm)
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| Stirlingsays 04 Sep 20 3.39pm |
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Originally posted by lefty27
I still don’t understand why some people are so against it, if it has a positive effect on keeping the virus under control then surly it’s a good thing. Were you wearing masks beforehand with flu killing thousands of people a year? As I said, if you choose to treat what the government dictates as your rulebook then fine I have no objection to your compliance. This is being treated like the black death when it has a death rate comparable to a bad flu. The government and media will do anything to avoid the blame for the massive over-reactions they took....they control the narrative to convince others their actions were justified. You buy it, I don't. I just stress the point that making others wear a mask under threat of force is an huge overstepping into civil liberties. Due to advancements in treatment while this virus will increase in the winter due to more time in housing the death rates won't be anywhere as high. Wearing masks makes no significant difference outside of exceptional conditions...mostly work ones. This should have always have been guidance not compulsion....as in Sweden. Edited by Stirlingsays (04 Sep 2020 3.49pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| cryrst The garden of England 04 Sep 20 3.46pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
Whoa careful this is not a police state, yet.... But it is getting close. He coughed in the face of two people.
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