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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)


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Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 18 Oct 19 2.11pm

Originally posted by berlinpalace

[Link]
Just a small example of the misinformation and outright fabrication that has been a feature of the Mail/Sun/Telegraph axis for the last 20 years and yet you still get people claiming that a two week pro EU campaign could counteract all that bs.
And now we’re at the point where this whole fiasco is being fronted someone who got fired from The Times for making up stories and straight away got a job making up anti-EU nonsense for the Telegraph.

I don’t think the opening up of Eastern Europe and immigration into the U.K. in 2004 and the Lisbon treaty has a lot to do with bananas, tampons or even fish, unless you’re in the industry.

EU is great for some, but not all. After we’ve left and a lot of the fake hysteria has died down it’ll become noticeable we’re still in Europe but not in hock to an EU Parliament.

 


COYP

steeleye20 Flag Croydon 18 Oct 19 2.11pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

That's the way it's being sold as apparently 95% of the text remains unchanged. However, the change to the way regulatory alignment is to be handled seems to have massive implications to me which demand very careful scrutiny before it is signed off as afterwards will be too late. The revised way of handling NI not so. They change the way the issue is to be handled there but not the fact that it will be handled.

What that does though, as any kind of Brexit does so far as I can determine, is to hasten the day when the UK falls apart. I heard some "loyalist" politicians this week saying that a united Ireland within the EU might actually be a good thing. The DUP appear to be becoming increasingly isolated. With Scotland now looking to me like a lost cause, if we Brexit, how will England and Wales fare alone. Indeed, how long will it be England AND Wales? If I am right then we will have left one Union and broken up another by this. I wonder if that is actually what those who voted to leave really wanted.

Amazing that May's deal was defeated by huge majorities, Johnson was in full cry 'slavery' 'vassal state' etc.

Yet now 95% the same and it is 'Johnson's deal'.

Enough mugs to support it too, typical 'back end of a fag-packet' UK.


 

Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 18 Oct 19 2.15pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

The way I read things if this deal does pass Parliament then you are likely to achieve your wish in a year's time as the trade arrangement talks would likely fail and "no-deal" would then crash back in.

By then Johnson would have gained a sufficiently large majority to trample any opposition.

Pretty good reasons for keeping my fingers crossed for our MPs tomorrow.

Just say you want to remain rather than wriggle number 8,754. Why didn’t you go into politics? You wouldn’t have needed any training or guidance. You could’ve faced Paxman, Marr and the QT audience and been the party whip and party leader’s no 1 favourite in 2 days. Straight into cabinet or shadow cabinet to decide what’s best for us.

 


COYP

Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 18 Oct 19 2.21pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

Amazing that May's deal was defeated by huge majorities, Johnson was in full cry 'slavery' 'vassal state' etc.

Yet now 95% the same and it is 'Johnson's deal'.

Enough mugs to support it too, typical 'back end of a fag-packet' UK.


We are much further down the road now and the deal is not exactly the same.
Any MP who wants to avoid no deal or the nightmare of more delays and uncertainty needs to vote for this deal.

 

Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 18 Oct 19 2.50pm

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

Just say you want to remain rather than wriggle number 8,754. Why didn’t you go into politics? You wouldn’t have needed any training or guidance. You could’ve faced Paxman, Marr and the QT audience and been the party whip and party leader’s no 1 favourite in 2 days. Straight into cabinet or shadow cabinet to decide what’s best for us.

Well done, at least that raised a smile. I have sometimes thought I missed my vocation and would have done OK as a barrister but as I came from a council house background and left school at 16 such things were never on my horizon.

I certainly would prefer to remain, but as that's not the choice being faced by Parliament it's not worth discussing it. The question is now whether Parliament ought to accept this deal, or reject it. If remaining ever became a viable option again and I could influence it, then I would probably try to support it. Right now our Parliament, having triggered Article 50, are trying to find a deal they can live with, or whether they can risk an extension refusal.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 18 Oct 19 2.58pm

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

I don’t think the opening up of Eastern Europe and immigration into the U.K. in 2004 and the Lisbon treaty has a lot to do with bananas, tampons or even fish, unless you’re in the industry.

EU is great for some, but not all. After we’ve left and a lot of the fake hysteria has died down it’ll become noticeable we’re still in Europe but not in hock to an EU Parliament.

We would just be in hock to the USA.

The only comfort is that by that time Trump would be gone and the madness of his presidency seen more clearly so it might have returned to a place we can all admire. I still though don't want to see us lowering our standards, ignoring environmental imperatives, selling off the NHS and commercialising the BBC. I want us to remain a social democracy and not a country which embraces libertarian principles.

That's the real danger of this form of Brexit.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Teddy Eagle Flag 18 Oct 19 3.06pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

We would just be in hock to the USA.

The only comfort is that by that time Trump would be gone and the madness of his presidency seen more clearly so it might have returned to a place we can all admire. I still though don't want to see us lowering our standards, ignoring environmental imperatives, selling off the NHS and commercialising the BBC. I want us to remain a social democracy and not a country which embraces libertarian principles.

That's the real danger of this form of Brexit.

As we’re still refinancing debt from WW1 we’ve been in hock to the USA for a long time.

 

chris123 Flag hove actually 18 Oct 19 3.14pm

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

You have revealed the reason why so many of us voted to leave. It wasn't anything to do with editorials in the mainstream media but because we have all dumbed down and now get our news feeds from Facebook and Twitter

Whatever next


Must be those pesky Ruskies behind the increasing federalism of the Union.

 

Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards SW19 CPFC Flag Addiscombe West 18 Oct 19 3.50pm

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

You have revealed the reason why so many of us voted to leave. It wasn't anything to do with editorials in the mainstream media but because we have all dumbed down and now get our news feeds from Facebook and Twitter

Whatever next


Obviously the effect of social media on the referendum vote is being significantly overstated here, and has been more recently re. the Cambridge Analytica scandal. But from your point it seems as though you seem to think it has little or no effect at all.

It has a massive and growing effect as a key, no filter propaganda or misinformation tool of influence, on any topic. An effect that will only increase as people increasingly turn to bitesize, high-level, sensationalist cuts of information and away from (occasionally) paywall based, high quality medium to long read information.

Did this have an influence on leave and remain voters in the referendum? Yes. Did it have a decisive influence on either group? Unlikely. Would it have more influence now if a referendum were held again due to increased adoption? Most likely. Just look at the dross DANGERMOUSE posts. That's proof enough. All the average joe reads now is slogan based news through their social feeds. It's genius, in a way.

No detailed reading, no cross-checking or balanced comparison, just lap up the repost without validation and then shout about it until hoarse while downing 5 pints of Carling down the local pub. Then stumble back, stuffing their faces with endangered North Sea Cod and chips, because it's cheap, innit, wipe the grease off their sweaty faces onto their Asda jumper and collapse into bed, with one final methane tinged wheeze.

What a life.

 


Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

DANGERCLOSE Flag London 18 Oct 19 3.51pm

The remoaners have spent over 3 years stating that compromise is needed to satisfy the 48% as their feelings should be considered yet I have seen no evidence of compromise from them towards us. They are under the delusion that they are the better educated yet cannot understand the concept of indoctrination.

 

Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 18 Oct 19 3.52pm

Originally posted by chris123

Must be those pesky Ruskies behind the increasing federalism of the Union.

There's always been a significant minority opposed to the EU. Maybe 20% to 25% of us? Not though 52%.

It was that difference that was subjected to the influence. The Eurosceptics, who include many posting here, were always going to vote to leave.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Teddy Eagle Flag 18 Oct 19 4.01pm

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

Obviously the effect of social media on the referendum vote is being significantly overstated here, and has been more recently re. the Cambridge Analytica scandal. But from your point it seems as though you seem to think it has little or no effect at all.

It has a massive and growing effect as a key, no filter propaganda or misinformation tool of influence, on any topic. An effect that will only increase as people increasingly turn to bitesize, high-level, sensationalist cuts of information and away from (occasionally) paywall based, high quality medium to long read information.

Did this have an influence on leave and remain voters in the referendum? Yes. Did it have a decisive influence on either group? Unlikely. Would it have more influence now if a referendum were held again due to increased adoption? Most likely. Just look at the dross DANGERMOUSE posts. That's proof enough. All the average joe reads now is slogan based news through their social feeds. It's genius, in a way.

No detailed reading, no cross-checking or balanced comparison, just lap up the repost without validation and then shout about it until hoarse while downing 5 pints of Carling down the local pub. Then stumble back, stuffing their faces with endangered North Sea Cod and chips, because it's cheap, innit, wipe the grease off their sweaty faces onto their Asda jumper and collapse into bed, with one final methane tinged wheeze.

What a life.

Anyone who stumbles after 5 pints of Carling has got enough problems to get on with.

 

Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 18 Oct 19 4.04pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

There's always been a significant minority opposed to the EU. Maybe 20% to 25% of us? Not though 52%.

It was that difference that was subjected to the influence. The Eurosceptics, who include many posting here, were always going to vote to leave.

Utter drivel.

The entire visual media is pro Euro and they have the biggest influence.
The government campaigned to Remain.

The idea that we voted Leave because of indoctrination is so ludicrous that it barely deserves a response.
You are basically saying that people should only listen to information that happens to fit with you beliefs.

Bonkers.


 

Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards SW19 CPFC Flag Addiscombe West 18 Oct 19 4.26pm

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

Anyone who stumbles after 5 pints of Carling has got enough problems to get on with.

Haha. Fair point.

 


Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards SW19 CPFC Flag Addiscombe West 18 Oct 19 4.28pm

Extension request all but guaranteed.

Letwin amendment likely to postpone vote on deal tomorrow...

Should be interesting to see if Cummings has a legal ace up his sleeve

 


Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

Badger11 Flag Beckenham 18 Oct 19 5.02pm

Deputy Leader of the Lib Dems MEPs car crash interview.


[Link]

I am not sure what annoys me more, her Project fear writ large or that she doesn't have a clue what she is talking about. She is another professional MP with no real life job experience mouthing the platitudes that her party have told he to say.

She's no David Steele.

 


One more point

Midlands Eagle Flag 18 Oct 19 5.13pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

There's always been a significant minority opposed to the EU. Maybe 20% to 25% of us? Not though 52%.

It was that difference that was subjected to the influence. The Eurosceptics, who include many posting here, were always going to vote to leave.

More Wissy tripe. I doubt whether most of us gave two thoughts to the EU prior to the referendum and it was only when we were asked to decide whether to stay in or leave did we start to think about it.

Personally I have no interest in social media other than seeing what a small group of my friends and family are up to and take the view that so called influencers are just a bunch of idle buggers that don't want to get a proper job and are certainly not people to take any notice of

 

Midlands Eagle Flag 18 Oct 19 5.17pm

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

Obviously the effect of social media on the referendum vote is being significantly overstated here, and has been more recently re. the Cambridge Analytica scandal. But from your point it seems as though you seem to think it has little or no effect at all.

It has a massive and growing effect as a key, no filter propaganda or misinformation tool of influence, on any topic. An effect that will only increase as people increasingly turn to bitesize, high-level, sensationalist cuts of information and away from (occasionally) paywall based, high quality medium to long read information.

Did this have an influence on leave and remain voters in the referendum? Yes. Did it have a decisive influence on either group? Unlikely. Would it have more influence now if a referendum were held again due to increased adoption? Most likely. Just look at the dross DANGERMOUSE posts. That's proof enough. All the average joe reads now is slogan based news through their social feeds. It's genius, in a way.

No detailed reading, no cross-checking or balanced comparison, just lap up the repost without validation and then shout about it until hoarse while downing 5 pints of Carling down the local pub. Then stumble back, stuffing their faces with endangered North Sea Cod and chips, because it's cheap, innit, wipe the grease off their sweaty faces onto their Asda jumper and collapse into bed, with one final methane tinged wheeze.

What a life.

I find your post quite insulting as I wouldn't wear anything from Asda even if I was desperate and I certainly don't drink lager as it's a girl's drink

 

cryrst Flag The garden of England 18 Oct 19 5.38pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

That's the way it's being sold as apparently 95% of the text remains unchanged. However, the change to the way regulatory alignment is to be handled seems to have massive implications to me which demand very careful scrutiny before it is signed off as afterwards will be too late. The revised way of handling NI not so. They change the way the issue is to be handled there but not the fact that it will be handled.

What that does though, as any kind of Brexit does so far as I can determine, is to hasten the day when the UK falls apart. I heard some "loyalist" politicians this week saying that a united Ireland within the EU might actually be a good thing. The DUP appear to be becoming increasingly isolated. With Scotland now looking to me like a lost cause, if we Brexit, how will England and Wales fare alone. Indeed, how long will it be England AND Wales? If I am right then we will have left one Union and broken up another by this. I wonder if that is actually what those who voted to leave really wanted.

The last line is desperate.
You spend months telling us we didnt know what we voted for.
Now you wonder if all leavers wanted to break up the UK.
You've dropped the ball wissy.


 

Teddy Eagle Flag 18 Oct 19 5.54pm

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

I find your post quite insulting as I wouldn't wear anything from Asda even if I was desperate and I certainly don't drink lager as it's a girl's drink

Stella has even got a girl’s name but it’s twisted me up a few times!

 

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