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Originally posted by berlinpalace
[Link] I don’t think the opening up of Eastern Europe and immigration into the U.K. in 2004 and the Lisbon treaty has a lot to do with bananas, tampons or even fish, unless you’re in the industry. EU is great for some, but not all. After we’ve left and a lot of the fake hysteria has died down it’ll become noticeable we’re still in Europe but not in hock to an EU Parliament.
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
That's the way it's being sold as apparently 95% of the text remains unchanged. However, the change to the way regulatory alignment is to be handled seems to have massive implications to me which demand very careful scrutiny before it is signed off as afterwards will be too late. The revised way of handling NI not so. They change the way the issue is to be handled there but not the fact that it will be handled. What that does though, as any kind of Brexit does so far as I can determine, is to hasten the day when the UK falls apart. I heard some "loyalist" politicians this week saying that a united Ireland within the EU might actually be a good thing. The DUP appear to be becoming increasingly isolated. With Scotland now looking to me like a lost cause, if we Brexit, how will England and Wales fare alone. Indeed, how long will it be England AND Wales? If I am right then we will have left one Union and broken up another by this. I wonder if that is actually what those who voted to leave really wanted. Amazing that May's deal was defeated by huge majorities, Johnson was in full cry 'slavery' 'vassal state' etc. Yet now 95% the same and it is 'Johnson's deal'. Enough mugs to support it too, typical 'back end of a fag-packet' UK.
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
The way I read things if this deal does pass Parliament then you are likely to achieve your wish in a year's time as the trade arrangement talks would likely fail and "no-deal" would then crash back in. By then Johnson would have gained a sufficiently large majority to trample any opposition. Pretty good reasons for keeping my fingers crossed for our MPs tomorrow. Just say you want to remain rather than wriggle number 8,754. Why didn’t you go into politics? You wouldn’t have needed any training or guidance. You could’ve faced Paxman, Marr and the QT audience and been the party whip and party leader’s no 1 favourite in 2 days. Straight into cabinet or shadow cabinet to decide what’s best for us.
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Originally posted by steeleye20
Amazing that May's deal was defeated by huge majorities, Johnson was in full cry 'slavery' 'vassal state' etc. Yet now 95% the same and it is 'Johnson's deal'. Enough mugs to support it too, typical 'back end of a fag-packet' UK. We are much further down the road now and the deal is not exactly the same.
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
Just say you want to remain rather than wriggle number 8,754. Why didn’t you go into politics? You wouldn’t have needed any training or guidance. You could’ve faced Paxman, Marr and the QT audience and been the party whip and party leader’s no 1 favourite in 2 days. Straight into cabinet or shadow cabinet to decide what’s best for us. Well done, at least that raised a smile. I have sometimes thought I missed my vocation and would have done OK as a barrister but as I came from a council house background and left school at 16 such things were never on my horizon. I certainly would prefer to remain, but as that's not the choice being faced by Parliament it's not worth discussing it. The question is now whether Parliament ought to accept this deal, or reject it. If remaining ever became a viable option again and I could influence it, then I would probably try to support it. Right now our Parliament, having triggered Article 50, are trying to find a deal they can live with, or whether they can risk an extension refusal.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
I don’t think the opening up of Eastern Europe and immigration into the U.K. in 2004 and the Lisbon treaty has a lot to do with bananas, tampons or even fish, unless you’re in the industry. EU is great for some, but not all. After we’ve left and a lot of the fake hysteria has died down it’ll become noticeable we’re still in Europe but not in hock to an EU Parliament. We would just be in hock to the USA. The only comfort is that by that time Trump would be gone and the madness of his presidency seen more clearly so it might have returned to a place we can all admire. I still though don't want to see us lowering our standards, ignoring environmental imperatives, selling off the NHS and commercialising the BBC. I want us to remain a social democracy and not a country which embraces libertarian principles. That's the real danger of this form of Brexit.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
We would just be in hock to the USA. The only comfort is that by that time Trump would be gone and the madness of his presidency seen more clearly so it might have returned to a place we can all admire. I still though don't want to see us lowering our standards, ignoring environmental imperatives, selling off the NHS and commercialising the BBC. I want us to remain a social democracy and not a country which embraces libertarian principles. That's the real danger of this form of Brexit. As we’re still refinancing debt from WW1 we’ve been in hock to the USA for a long time.
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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
You have revealed the reason why so many of us voted to leave. It wasn't anything to do with editorials in the mainstream media but because we have all dumbed down and now get our news feeds from Facebook and Twitter Whatever next Must be those pesky Ruskies behind the increasing federalism of the Union.
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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
You have revealed the reason why so many of us voted to leave. It wasn't anything to do with editorials in the mainstream media but because we have all dumbed down and now get our news feeds from Facebook and Twitter Whatever next Obviously the effect of social media on the referendum vote is being significantly overstated here, and has been more recently re. the Cambridge Analytica scandal. But from your point it seems as though you seem to think it has little or no effect at all. It has a massive and growing effect as a key, no filter propaganda or misinformation tool of influence, on any topic. An effect that will only increase as people increasingly turn to bitesize, high-level, sensationalist cuts of information and away from (occasionally) paywall based, high quality medium to long read information. Did this have an influence on leave and remain voters in the referendum? Yes. Did it have a decisive influence on either group? Unlikely. Would it have more influence now if a referendum were held again due to increased adoption? Most likely. Just look at the dross DANGERMOUSE posts. That's proof enough. All the average joe reads now is slogan based news through their social feeds. It's genius, in a way. No detailed reading, no cross-checking or balanced comparison, just lap up the repost without validation and then shout about it until hoarse while downing 5 pints of Carling down the local pub. Then stumble back, stuffing their faces with endangered North Sea Cod and chips, because it's cheap, innit, wipe the grease off their sweaty faces onto their Asda jumper and collapse into bed, with one final methane tinged wheeze. What a life.
Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons. |
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Originally posted by chris123
Must be those pesky Ruskies behind the increasing federalism of the Union. There's always been a significant minority opposed to the EU. Maybe 20% to 25% of us? Not though 52%. It was that difference that was subjected to the influence. The Eurosceptics, who include many posting here, were always going to vote to leave.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
Obviously the effect of social media on the referendum vote is being significantly overstated here, and has been more recently re. the Cambridge Analytica scandal. But from your point it seems as though you seem to think it has little or no effect at all. It has a massive and growing effect as a key, no filter propaganda or misinformation tool of influence, on any topic. An effect that will only increase as people increasingly turn to bitesize, high-level, sensationalist cuts of information and away from (occasionally) paywall based, high quality medium to long read information. Did this have an influence on leave and remain voters in the referendum? Yes. Did it have a decisive influence on either group? Unlikely. Would it have more influence now if a referendum were held again due to increased adoption? Most likely. Just look at the dross DANGERMOUSE posts. That's proof enough. All the average joe reads now is slogan based news through their social feeds. It's genius, in a way. No detailed reading, no cross-checking or balanced comparison, just lap up the repost without validation and then shout about it until hoarse while downing 5 pints of Carling down the local pub. Then stumble back, stuffing their faces with endangered North Sea Cod and chips, because it's cheap, innit, wipe the grease off their sweaty faces onto their Asda jumper and collapse into bed, with one final methane tinged wheeze. What a life. Anyone who stumbles after 5 pints of Carling has got enough problems to get on with.
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
There's always been a significant minority opposed to the EU. Maybe 20% to 25% of us? Not though 52%. It was that difference that was subjected to the influence. The Eurosceptics, who include many posting here, were always going to vote to leave. Utter drivel. The entire visual media is pro Euro and they have the biggest influence. The idea that we voted Leave because of indoctrination is so ludicrous that it barely deserves a response. Bonkers.
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
Anyone who stumbles after 5 pints of Carling has got enough problems to get on with. Haha. Fair point.
Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons. |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
There's always been a significant minority opposed to the EU. Maybe 20% to 25% of us? Not though 52%. It was that difference that was subjected to the influence. The Eurosceptics, who include many posting here, were always going to vote to leave. More Wissy tripe. I doubt whether most of us gave two thoughts to the EU prior to the referendum and it was only when we were asked to decide whether to stay in or leave did we start to think about it. Personally I have no interest in social media other than seeing what a small group of my friends and family are up to and take the view that so called influencers are just a bunch of idle buggers that don't want to get a proper job and are certainly not people to take any notice of
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
Obviously the effect of social media on the referendum vote is being significantly overstated here, and has been more recently re. the Cambridge Analytica scandal. But from your point it seems as though you seem to think it has little or no effect at all. It has a massive and growing effect as a key, no filter propaganda or misinformation tool of influence, on any topic. An effect that will only increase as people increasingly turn to bitesize, high-level, sensationalist cuts of information and away from (occasionally) paywall based, high quality medium to long read information. Did this have an influence on leave and remain voters in the referendum? Yes. Did it have a decisive influence on either group? Unlikely. Would it have more influence now if a referendum were held again due to increased adoption? Most likely. Just look at the dross DANGERMOUSE posts. That's proof enough. All the average joe reads now is slogan based news through their social feeds. It's genius, in a way. No detailed reading, no cross-checking or balanced comparison, just lap up the repost without validation and then shout about it until hoarse while downing 5 pints of Carling down the local pub. Then stumble back, stuffing their faces with endangered North Sea Cod and chips, because it's cheap, innit, wipe the grease off their sweaty faces onto their Asda jumper and collapse into bed, with one final methane tinged wheeze. What a life. I find your post quite insulting as I wouldn't wear anything from Asda even if I was desperate and I certainly don't drink lager as it's a girl's drink
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
That's the way it's being sold as apparently 95% of the text remains unchanged. However, the change to the way regulatory alignment is to be handled seems to have massive implications to me which demand very careful scrutiny before it is signed off as afterwards will be too late. The revised way of handling NI not so. They change the way the issue is to be handled there but not the fact that it will be handled. What that does though, as any kind of Brexit does so far as I can determine, is to hasten the day when the UK falls apart. I heard some "loyalist" politicians this week saying that a united Ireland within the EU might actually be a good thing. The DUP appear to be becoming increasingly isolated. With Scotland now looking to me like a lost cause, if we Brexit, how will England and Wales fare alone. Indeed, how long will it be England AND Wales? If I am right then we will have left one Union and broken up another by this. I wonder if that is actually what those who voted to leave really wanted. The last line is desperate.
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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
I find your post quite insulting as I wouldn't wear anything from Asda even if I was desperate and I certainly don't drink lager as it's a girl's drink Stella has even got a girl’s name but it’s twisted me up a few times!
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